• Originals
    • Categories
      • Gear
        • Forum
          • Picture of the Day
            • Contests
              • More
                • FS Gear Guide
                • Fstoppers T-shirts
              • Home
              • Advertise
              • Meet the Writers
              • Submit Content
              • Contact
              toofar
              toofar
              August 28, 2012
              Lee Morris

              Did Our Post On ‘Morning After’ Photography Go Too Far?

              Earlier today Lauren wrote a humorous, opinionated, post about ‘Morning After’ Boudoir Photography. This post was met with great hostility and inappropriate personal attacks towards Lauren. Is Fstoppers too big now to have a voice? Are we only allowed to report news stories without expressing opinions? Did we go to far or did commenting get out of hand?

              I started Fstoppers with Patrick less than 3 years ago and since then we have grown to something much bigger than I had ever hoped. We now have a huge team of talented writers and receive over 2 million page views each month. Patrick and I have given our writers freedom to basically post about whatever they like whether that is a standard re-post or a entertaining original opinion piece.

              What started all of this?
              If you didn’t read Lauren’s post, she basically claims that she is against ‘morning after’ photography because people are sharing these pictures on Facebook and then hanging them in public places around their homes. She specifically says she doesn’t have a problem with the pictures in general, she just believes they should be private:

              “In this video from Good Morning America, the bride states she plans to have the images framed and put up all over their room. I honestly don’t see anything wrong with doing that – your bedroom should be your sacred place for just the two of you. The room and all its decorations are just for you and your significant other. What I can’t grasp is why you would want something so sacred to be strewn all over the internet for your coworkers, perhaps boss, friends, and relatives to see.”

              Whenever you write an opinion piece like this you are going to have some people who agree with you and others that do not. It appears that in the case of Lauren’s post, the majority of readers disagreed with her. However, the most interesting part to me is to see how people respond to articles they don’t agree with. Let’s first look at an opinion piece that I recently wrote that the majority of people DID agree with: Why Bad Wedding Photographers Have Made The Industry Better. Aside from a few people on Facebook who claimed they would never come to Fstoppers again because I was being “mean” (I’m not sure they actually read my article), the majority of comments were very positive:

              “Great post, Lee. One of the better ones I’ve seen on this topic/issue”

              “Awesome post!!!”, “Thank you so much for writing this Lee.”

              “Damn, you guys have been cranking out some seriously good reads. Thanks Lee.”


              Nobody wrote anything like “I don’t come to Fstoppers for opinions, why don’t you stick to news.” Why? Because the majority of people agreed with me. Now let’s look at the responses to Lauren’s post in which more people disagreed with her. Here are a few of the comments that stood out to me:

              “Can we please have more articles about photography and less op-ed pieces from the office manager?”

              “Sorry but this article is total crap… People have eluded to this above but, I’m just going to come out and say it. This is NOT what I visit FS for.”

              “You are most definitely a prude. You are also being very judgemental of something that clearly doesn’t affect your target market. Whatever the client wants, there will most certainly be someone willing to take pictures of it and get paid for doing so. For you to say that a bride is “vain and self-loving” for wanting steamy photos of herself and the one she loves is honestly horrible and downright nasty.As for some critique of your portfolio, I find out-of-focus, grainy, shots with crooked horizons to be more offensive since your clients probably paid you for your time.”


              I want to make it clear that disagreeing with a writer and making a comment about it great, we want you to do that. I LOVE respectful debates and also appreciate when someone can sway my opinion by making a great argument. I simply want to point out how quickly things can get out of hand when people disagree with something they read online. Maybe you thought that Lauren was disrespectful towards those who do enjoy this type of photography or she was unfair to the photographers who are hired to shoot these jobs, that’s fine! I would probably agree with you. Writing that in the comments would make your point. Attacking Lauren personally or opinion pieces in general is not a way to argue nor behave, in my opinion.

              Most people only comment if they have something negative to say
              One of the most frustrating things about running Fstoppers (or anything on the internet) is that most people will not comment unless they are mad and have something negative to say. My post about bad wedding photography has been viewed 20,000 times now and has 28 comments. Lauren’s post has been up for only a few hours and has been viewed 9,500 times and has 60 comments. The other unfortunate thing that you have to remember is that controversy sells. Lauren’s post will probably become the most popular post of the entire week BECAUSE so many people commented negatively about it and then other people decide to comment to attack the attackers in the comments. Our most popular post of all time was The iPhone Fashion Shoot and the controversy of that post made it successful. People LOVE to tell me how terrible of a photographer I am and how I am lying to people about gear not being important and then there are others that LOVE to attack those commenters and stick up for me. The sad truth is that I bet the majority of people who read Lauren’s post DID agree with her and then they moved on to the next post. In many cases it’s only the people who take offense to an article that have the energy to write a comment.

              All of that being said I want everyone to know that we really appreciate each of you being readers and our goal is not to offend any of you but with around 500,000 different photographers coming to our website each month, we are bound to ruffle some feathers. Please take 5 seconds and check a box in the poll below so that we can get a realistic idea of our readers opinion of Lauren’s post.


               

               

              Editorial
              « Could the Sony a99 Be the D800 We Really Wanted?
              BTSV: The Girls of Tekken Tag Tournament 2 Shoot »
              Newer Comments →
              • http://www.daneitz.com/ David Neitz

                Chalk one up for the Trolls. Ugh. People just like to complain and live in this idealized world where they can do no wrong and have Gandhi like morals. If the Internet of all places became a sterilized voice what would I do with myself in between edits?

              • http://www.daneitz.com/ David Neitz

                Chalk one up for the Trolls. Ugh. People just like to complain and live in this idealized world where they can do no wrong and have Gandhi like morals. If the Internet of all places became a sterilized voice what would I do with myself in between edits?

              • http://tambnguyen.com/ Tam Nguyen Photography

                It’s really not worth arguing about, keep up the good work Fstoppers!

                Btw it’s probably worth posting this: http://xkcd.com/810/ and this http://xkcd.com/481/

              • http://tambnguyen.com/ Tam Nguyen Photography

                It’s really not worth arguing about, keep up the good work Fstoppers!

                Btw it’s probably worth posting this: http://xkcd.com/810/ and this http://xkcd.com/481/

              • http://twitter.com/Tapionlinna Mikko Tapionlinna

                I came here to say the same thing as Tam said. Only problem is that I was few minutes too late. His reply was better than mine, and got extra points for xkcd reference. So please listen him. :D

              • http://twitter.com/Tapionlinna Mikko Tapionlinna

                I came here to say the same thing as Tam said. Only problem is that I was few minutes too late. His reply was better than mine, and got extra points for xkcd reference. So please listen him. :D

              • Jr Miller

                I remember when this site was about photographers doing what they do..and sharing how they did it. The odd gear review from “real and working” photographers combined with BTS Vids was great. Now it’s a bit too much editorial OP ED nonsense. Get back to basics, KISS.

              • Jr Miller

                I remember when this site was about photographers doing what they do..and sharing how they did it. The odd gear review from “real and working” photographers combined with BTS Vids was great. Now it’s a bit too much editorial OP ED nonsense. Get back to basics, KISS.

              • http://www.rlmorris.com Lee Morris

                To be fair though we used to do 1 post per day. Now we do 5-15 posts every single day. We actually do more BTSV than we ever have before we have just added other content as well. 

              • http://www.rlmorris.com Lee Morris

                To be fair though we used to do 1 post per day. Now we do 5-15 posts every single day. We actually do more BTSV than we ever have before we have just added other content as well. 

              • http://www.facebook.com/barrosandrew Andrew Barros

                I honestly read just first half of what Lauren wrote before seeing this. I immediately got her point, I laughed, in all honesty. Then I saw the comments. I was actually thrown aback. Opinions are opinions, now I did not read every comment, I actually found it rude that some people would attack her own work in that manner. 

                professional or not, if you take everything too seriously (including anything internet) you shouldn’t be reading half the posts on Fstoppers. I love this site, and a little humor thrown in gets me thru my day at work. I’m no professional, and I side with Lauren.

                in conclusion… haters gonna hate.

              • http://www.facebook.com/barrosandrew Andrew Barros

                I honestly read just first half of what Lauren wrote before seeing this. I immediately got her point, I laughed, in all honesty. Then I saw the comments. I was actually thrown aback. Opinions are opinions, now I did not read every comment, I actually found it rude that some people would attack her own work in that manner. 

                professional or not, if you take everything too seriously (including anything internet) you shouldn’t be reading half the posts on Fstoppers. I love this site, and a little humor thrown in gets me thru my day at work. I’m no professional, and I side with Lauren.

                in conclusion… haters gonna hate.

              • http://profile.yahoo.com/5VVMWUNMABGFKBYM7NSBIHBBIM Chris

                Lauren, full respect for your photography and your opinion.  Many of those comments were unfair, and the personal attacks were definitely unwarranted.  I think FStoppers should definitely continue doing op-ed pieces for those who enjoy them (whether we agree with the opinion or not) and those who don’t like them can skip over the post. 

              • http://profile.yahoo.com/5VVMWUNMABGFKBYM7NSBIHBBIM Chris

                Lauren, full respect for your photography and your opinion.  Many of those comments were unfair, and the personal attacks were definitely unwarranted.  I think FStoppers should definitely continue doing op-ed pieces for those who enjoy them (whether we agree with the opinion or not) and those who don’t like them can skip over the post. 

              • http://twitter.com/OfficialDan Dan Howard

                there’s a lot of people on here who I class as gear-fags. all they want you to post is the latest tech news, who’s bringing out a bigger camera yada yada yada… I actually really enjoy the art side, finding out about projects and learning tricks. The boudoir post wasn’t my cup of tea, it’s not the post just the idea of being a photographer and being asked to photograph something like that… yak!

                great work Fstoppers, keep it up, post whatever you like cause it’s all good.

              • http://twitter.com/OfficialDan Dan Howard

                there’s a lot of people on here who I class as gear-fags. all they want you to post is the latest tech news, who’s bringing out a bigger camera yada yada yada… I actually really enjoy the art side, finding out about projects and learning tricks. The boudoir post wasn’t my cup of tea, it’s not the post just the idea of being a photographer and being asked to photograph something like that… yak!

                great work Fstoppers, keep it up, post whatever you like cause it’s all good.

              • http://www.facebook.com/people/Austin-Storm/500307360 Austin Storm

                I have noticed that this site seems to attract some pretty grumpy commenters.

              • http://www.facebook.com/people/Austin-Storm/500307360 Austin Storm

                I have noticed that this site seems to attract some pretty grumpy commenters.

              • flyrcairplanes

                Lauren,
                Keep up the good work.  The day you make everyone happy is the day you lose your soul.  Then you do something crazy like go onto a successful political career ;)

              • flyrcairplanes

                Lauren,
                Keep up the good work.  The day you make everyone happy is the day you lose your soul.  Then you do something crazy like go onto a successful political career ;)

              • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=733877787 Lennar Kivistik

                I would have been a quiet reader but seeing the comments and all the fuzz.. people take stuff way to seriously these days and especially photographers with theyr high pride.
                Love Fstoppers and I laughed at Laurens opinion! great post, keep it up! :D

              • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=733877787 Lennar Kivistik

                I would have been a quiet reader but seeing the comments and all the fuzz.. people take stuff way to seriously these days and especially photographers with theyr high pride.
                Love Fstoppers and I laughed at Laurens opinion! great post, keep it up! :D

              • http://twitter.com/nzc3 Nicholas Coppula

                I think you know you are doing the right thing when you cause a ruckus.  People always have gotten pissed at the media, but now with the internet they have an easy, usually anonymous, and instant way to bitch.

                Thanks and keep doing what you are doing, Fstoppers.

              • http://twitter.com/nzc3 Nicholas Coppula

                I think you know you are doing the right thing when you cause a ruckus.  People always have gotten pissed at the media, but now with the internet they have an easy, usually anonymous, and instant way to bitch.

                Thanks and keep doing what you are doing, Fstoppers.

              • ithackermike

                I just posted a letter of sorts to Lauren on that article. Her article didnt go too far. Give Lauren a raise. Keep doing what you’re doing. I value the opinions and people brave enough to form them.

              • ithackermike

                I just posted a letter of sorts to Lauren on that article. Her article didnt go too far. Give Lauren a raise. Keep doing what you’re doing. I value the opinions and people brave enough to form them.

              • PSLinden

                I may agree with your point, but can we be adults and avoid homophobic epithets like “fag?” it’s inappropriate and uncalled for.

              • PSLinden

                I may agree with your point, but can we be adults and avoid homophobic epithets like “fag?” it’s inappropriate and uncalled for.

              • http://www.facebook.com/hiroschneider Jaron Schneider

                Right? 

              • http://www.facebook.com/hiroschneider Jaron Schneider

                Right? 

              • David Parrott

                Any man who relates to the world through XKCD strips is a hero in my book. Screw this debate, Tam for president!

              • David Parrott

                Any man who relates to the world through XKCD strips is a hero in my book. Screw this debate, Tam for president!

              • Steve Bailey

                I read the entire thread of comments from the “Morning After” piece and was reminded of a simple truth. If you’re by and large too stupid to  attack the argument, attack the grammar. I was also reminded that getting your panties in a bunch apparently has an adverse effect on your ability to comprehend what you’re reading.  I have five kids and am always having to block people from their facebook pages. I don’t want to see pictures of my friends and certainly not my family this way.
                       What’s wrong with being prude anyway, the concept is passed around like its the black spot or something. The meanings and roots of the word are those of wisdom, etiquette, and looking toward the future with grace, integrity  and intelligence. All traits to look for in any working or social relationship. The word was made derogatory by jackals, rapists and dumbbahsses and is usually followed by an attempt to either physically or verbally   remove your pants, skirt, blouse, dress etc etc…
                        I don’t comment on here a lot, but attacking Laurens work, and attacking her rather than the her opinion  was chickenshit ignorance at its absolute finest level. I don’t check out fstoppers for the opinion pieces, as it is a great place to find new technology, new techniques  and occasionally my own work.         

                Don’t let the bastards get you down
                Steven Bailey
                Blownapart Studios

              • http://www.rebeccabrittphotography.com/ Rebecca Britt

                <3   

                "What's wrong with being prude anyway, the concept is passed around like its the black spot or something. The meanings and roots of the word are those of wisdom, etiquette, and looking toward the future with grace, integrity  and intelligence."

                I so love that!! 

              • ajmills

                Of course you (FS as a collective and single entities) are entitled to your opinions, as I am with mine, etc.

                But the title of that post is, well, provocative — it was worded in such a way as to provoke a reaction (it made a statement as if it was fact, and wasn’t worded as a question to open debate), and to be honest, I believe that was what was wanted.

                I won’t comment on the actual content as I’ve not had chance to read all of it yet, so will withhold any judgement there.

                I don’t agree with the personal attacks in the comments, though. Sadly, being miles away and “hidden” behind a computer tends to make some people a little “braver” than normal. And perhaps remove a few braincells.

              • bevan goldswain

                Lee you have added more, but be careful as more can ruin the whole thing. 
                I’ve recently been getting annoyed at the signal to noise ratio around here. The more noise you add the more your fans struggle to hear the signal.

              • http://www.facebook.com/ryan.powers Ryan Powers

                if people don’t like these types of articles they can always ask for their money back  ;)

              • ithackermike

                well said.

              • http://twitter.com/Gustaveux Gustaveux

                Gonna start advertising this new gig. Probably bring more business..

              • http://profiles.google.com/mi1stormilst Garrett Graham

                I think you should capture the IP ADDRESSES of the 12 lamers and ban them for life ;-P

              • http://profiles.google.com/mi1stormilst Garrett Graham

                It’s because no one wants to hire them ;-)

              • Jack_AZ

                Being a creator of anything is much like working for the government. The only time you get any feedback is when it is negative, just don’t forget about the silent majority(we are here, as Lee pointed out we read the article and moved on). And don’t blame them for being silent, it has likely been ingrained into their psyche since early childhood. Conformity, anonymity, and invisibility. The unspoken mantra of too many parents and too many school systems.

              • http://twitter.com/anthony_chopin Anthony Chopin

                I would like to add that i do miss the F-Stoppers originals. I learned a lot from them and i really wish you guys could bring them back!

              • http://www.facebook.com/hiroschneider Jaron Schneider

                They aren’t gone, we promise. We will never retire FS originals!

              • http://www.rlmorris.com Lee Morris

                Ya we totally agree and we need to get back to them soon. At the moment we are filming a massive project on all things wedding photography and it’s taking up most of our time.

              • amanduca

                I think everyone reacted so harshly because the article itself was so harsh. It was an uncalled and overly opinionated passive aggressive “attack” on anyone who would pay for that type of shoot, actually shoot it, or even anyone who would want that type of photography taken of them. Honestly, I’m very liberal and consider myself a progressive and I think sexuality is a very healthy, normal and human thing. Those images to me are NOT DISTASTEFUL. And most photographers who shoot fashion, beauty, celebrity portraiture, and even weddings would also not see a problem with them. Who would see a problem with them? Extremely conservative people I’m guessing, which probably doesn’t flow very well with the readers of this photography site. At least with me, most of the photographers I know are artists at their core. They probably wouldn’t see anything wrong with any of these photos, and I doubt people from other countries besides the US or other extremely conservative places would either. Do you think a Norweign, Canadian, Japanese, or French photographer somewhere would scoff this as Lauren did and/or agree with her opinion. Doubtful. 

                I’ve been reading fstoppers for a long time, I love it and thats not going to change anytime soon.. I’ll keep reading it and skip that rare “crap article” I dont like.. But that doesn’t mean I didn’t get a little pissed off when I read that article. Judgmental and antiquated thinking. No me gusta. Scary part is it reminded me of politics and the GOP. 

              • http://www.facebook.com/lacerda.augusto Augusto Lacerda

                I think the way the two articles were written has a lot to do with it. My opinion about the two of them is not in case, but mostly catches my attention is the way it is written. 

                Take a look at her post and take a look at yours. Yours is a very more subtle – in the way you present the arguments and the language itself – and does not uses arguments like “they are narcissists at their finest” (which sounds a little like prejudice) or “Nowadays the only reason us of this present generation take pictures of ourselves is to hang on the mantle and most importantly, share on Facebook”. 

                With this kind of position – language and arguments – you generate more passionate (sometimes aggressive) reactions only because it is a more passionate kind of writing. And this passionate kind of writing takes the credibility away. Also, the text only presents one side of the coin (don’t know if this expression exists in english, but whatever…).

                I don’t know about the rest of the people, but I would guess that all of us here at fstoppers are looking for a more journalistic approach of the facts and even the opinions. That was not a journalism of opinion, that was just a person saying a bunch of things.

                It’s not the content or the opinion, it’s the way it has been presented. 

              • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brooke-Mathews/1353031221 Brooke Mathews

                Its not that your to big, Lauren didn’t do a good job of writing an opinionated article. I don’t mind the authors opinion being inserted into an article, but the one Lauren wrote seemed more like a rant. It wasn’t enjoyable, and it didn’t make me think, it just kind of made me think Lauren was a little rude. I think Patrick does the best job of stating his opinion and the one he’s arguing against. Maybe Lauren just wrote this while she was a little upset. regardless I didn’t enjoy it, even though I agree with most of her statements.

              • http://www.facebook.com/ericcgould Eric Gould

                If you run your business based on polls you’ll run yourself out of business.  Decide a direction for your site and keep to it. It’s working dude. Content from photographers about photography. Lauren’s recent article and the one about Craig’s List both feel like rants from someone who s seeking recognition but does not yet have the talent, experience and maturity to deserve it.  They simply have no credibility. Is the writer a wedding photographer or bride or a  groom. What’s their personal experience they bring to the discussion.  Look at newspaper op-eds as a possible model going forward. Note the bios of the folks writing them… 

              • Jr Miller

                Quantity over quality works for some…but you guys started out very differently and now basically you are a revolving door of lesser quality posts. Understood that your working on something “big” but no regular successful business would sacrifice quality when “something” else more shiny comes up. Get rid of half of your contributors and force the remaining ones to post more quality stuff…I mean seriously, our industry isn’t short of “I did this and this is how you can do it too” is it?

              Newer Comments →
              • Connect with Fstoppers
                Follow @Fstoppers
              • Fstoppers Originals
              • Popular Articles
                • Airline Says 'No Photography' on Flights
                • Autism in Pictures - The Work of Timothy Archibald
                • What A Week Of Groceries Looks Like Around The World
                • LensRentals Shows Us How to Clean Your Lenses for Dust and Effectively Scare the Crap Out Of Us
                • How Would You Feel Being Secretly Photographed in Your House For An Art Exhibit?
                • "Unplugged Weddings": Preventing Guests From Destroying Your Photographs
                • Endearing Animal Portraits By 18 Year Old Photographer Jessica Trinh
                • Bulb Ramping Tutorial Makes Complicated Timelapses Look Easy
                • The Best Viral Music Video You Never Saw
                • The Story of How Law Enforcement Uses Photoshop to Fight Crime
                • Creating Creative Portraits By Dragging The Shutter And Adding Movement
                • Get a Stanford Education FOR FREE!
                • Iconic Rock Photographer Norman Seef's Stories Behind the Photos
                • Time & Google Timelapse 30 Years Of Satellite Photography
              • Recent Comments
                • 3bettins said Most of the time these regulations come to light when some sort of situation occurs on an airplane, not w »
                • Adrian Sidney said Waaahhh the waterrrrrr has a slight blurrr (teary eyes). Only us photographers will complain about a wate »
                • rascal said people tend to co-operate better if they know the reasons why »
                • rascal said well then, perhaps the reasons should be explained to people...and don't just say "security reasons", tha »
                • Sherry Miles said The primary complainers would be the ones in an uproar if an unflattering photo or video wound up in a pu »
                • Daniel Stepnik said Not illegal? I wonder how these same law enforcement people would fare in getting a search or arrest warr »
                • Andy said Simple solution - I will take my business elsewhere. Video and photography are part of the 'fun' of trave »
                • Syed said fake »
              • Support Fstoppers
                current nikon rebates deals
              • FS Originals
              • Endearing Animal Portraits By 18 Year Old Photographer Jessica Trinh
              • How to Go Pro Without Going Crazy
              • Fstoppers Sits Down with Lara Jade
              • Fstoppers First Look: Sigma’s New 18-35 f/1.8
              • Fstoppers Reviews SLRLounge’s Natural Light Couples Photography Workshop DVD
              • Categories
              • Commercial
              • Video
              • Gear
              • Location
              • Strobe Light
              • Contests
              • Win a 30x40 Print
              • Alien Skin Retouch Contest
              • Win the Art Behind the Headshot
              • Black Rapid Contest
              • Win a Lowepro Bag
              • Random Posts
              • ASMP & Photoshelter Release Copyright Guide
              • Robert Rodriguez Exposes Kobe Bryant’s Black Mamba
              • Behind The Scenes: Throwing Lenovo Laptops Out Of Airplanes
              • How To Mount A Camera To A Drifting BMW
              • What Photographers Do To Entertain Themselves In An Airport
              • Picture of the Day
              • Frankfurt Delay
              • LHD-1
              • Search and Rescue
              • Gallardo
              • Aurora X-Trail
              • Home
              • Advertise
              • Meet the Writers
              • Submit Content
              • Contact
              • Sitemap
              © Fstoppers
              Made by Novum