Will Video Cameras Kill Still Photography? Red Epic Vs Hasselblad

UPDATED WITH PETER’S Full RES FILES! New cameras are getting faster and faster each year. In over a decade DSLRs have gone from 6 fps to 12 fps, and now many can shoot 60 frames of HD video. We’ve all heard it before, “At some point photographers will just shoot video and pull the best frame out” but is this really even feasible? Fstoppers.com recently teamed up with Peter Hurley to test this theory as we compared the Hasselblad H3D-22 with the Red Epic. The results are shocking!

Peter Hurley is considered one of the top headshot photographers in the world. Since his whole style is based on capturing the absolute definitive moment in a person’s expression, we thought it would be fun to bring a Red Epic video camera into his studio and test it against a traditional medium format still camera (thanks Cinema-Vision NYC!). Since Peter lights his portraits with Kino Flos, a type of constant light, the images taken on both systems would look stylistically identical.

The question we wanted to know was…

Can high resolution video keep up with or out perform high resolution photography?

Below are two high resolution images from the headshot session. The first image is from the 22mp Hasselblad H3D-22 and the second image is from the 14mp Red Epic.

Hasselblad H3D-22

Red Epic

The difference between cameras

The Hasselblad H3D-22 medium format camera

Camera Type Medium Format Interchangeable Lens Camera with Reflex Viewfinder and Integrated Digital Back
Image Quality
Image Sensor 36.7 x 49.0 mm, 22 Megapixel CCD
Effective Resolution 22.2 million pixels
Color Depth 48-Bit RGB
Color Modes Full Color
Image File Formats RAW 3FR
TIFF (8-bit)
Recorded Resolution 4080 x 5440 pixels

The Red Epic 5k Video Camera

Camera Type 5K High Resolution Video Camera with Interchangeable Lenses
Image Quality
Image Sensor 30mm x 15mm, 14 Megapixel CMOS
Effective Resolution 13.8 million pixels
Color Depth 24-Bit RGB
Color Modes Full Color
Image File Formats RAW R3D
TIFF (16-bit)
Recorded Resolution 5120 x 2700 pixels

What is 5K video?

Unless you are heavily involved with video recording, the average person might not know what 5K video actually means. The term “5K” refers to the horizontal pixel count on a video file. Everyone is familiar with 1080 HD video which has 1080 pixels vertically. The Red Epic shoots video that is over 6x more resolution! If you were to pause a 1080 video and pull that frame out from the video, you would have a 2 megapixel image (1080×1920 – 2 million pixels). With a 5K video frame, you have almost 14 megapixels (5120×2700 as in the Red Epic).

For a modest 8×10 print, you need roughly 3 megapixels and a super sharp image to print something usable. The Red Epic can film 120 frames per second at the full 5K resolution which means you can easily print the exact definitive moment on a 17″x9″ canvas (5K is 16:9 aspect ratio).

I thought photographers use strobes, why does this work?

Photographers typically use flashes or strobes to light their images. Videographers rely on constant light. Peter Hurley actually uses constant light to photograph his headshots. By lighting his subjects with Kino Flo light banks, Peter was easily able to shoot both stills and video under the same lighting condition. With his headshot clients, Peter alternates between pure white backgrounds and medium gray backgrounds by flashing his background. The Red Epic cannot record fast enough to capture Peter’s pure white backgrounds lit by flash but it can reproduce his medium gray background because they are only lit by his Kino Flo lights.

For more information about Peter Hurley’s lighting setup and why his headshots are some of the best in the world, check out his full length tutorial The Art Behind The Headshot.

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http://www.facebook.com/jesse.dekoster Jesse de Koster
I do prefer the Hasselblad. Colors ánd sharpness. The Red-Epic seems to be slightly oversaturated, but that could be a post-production thing. Interesting test though.
JohnDavdPittman
This is crazy! SHABANG!
http://twitter.com/adathomp Adam Thompson
I think there’s a pretty huge difference in clarity. the Red-Epic is a lot softer, as far as exposure, DOF, and Colors go I’m impressed.
Ben Margolin
The Hassie is better, but only a tiny bit. Amazing.
JabariHunt
To build on what Adam said, the depth of field fall off is much more pleasing with the Blad. I’m not sure if it’s due to the reduced clarity, different aperture, or different lens used, but it’s definitely noticeable.
Still, if you only need 8×10 prints the results are usable.
http://twitter.com/humzamehbub Humza Mehbub
I wouldn’t be surprised if I didn’t get such a good frame shot from a $80K video-camera. Yes, a possibility, but I believe in the future (not the near future) – maybe when we are done comparing Nikon with Canon era? Haha
http://twitter.com/humzamehbub Humza Mehbub
Likewise. Definitely prefer the sharpness of the Hasselblad over the RED Epic. But I guess you won’t notice that much if u get them printed on a smaller photo-paper.
james digiorgio
I’ve been both a professional photographer and videographer for a very long time. Because of the costs associated with them, it’s going to be quite a while before the average photographer will be using either of those cameras. A related comment: I’ve worked with Kino Flos almost since they first appeared as production lighting tools. While there’s many benefits to shooting with Kinos, controlling their light or creating drama with them isn’t one of them. Since all portraits, even headshots, aren’t best shot with even, flat lighting, photographers who wish to use constant light sources are still left with hot lights if they want to create dramatic lighting.
http://www.rlmorris.com Lee Morris
There is no doubt that the Hasselblad is still sharper but on a simple 8×10 print you really can’t see any difference. I’ve been wanting to do this test since I first heard about the Epic and I was honestly shocked by how well it did.
I always thought 5k meant 5mp… I was very wrong.
nlschlax
Interesting idea, and great job pulling it off. But I think Peter touched on some of the main problems. Obviously the quality is nearly there, and will only improve even more, but the post-processing is just way too slow and cumbersome. I’m sure the software end could be improved, but I think part of the art of photography is finding those moments as you’re shooting and interacting with your subject, not while you’re hunched over a display scrubbing through thousands of frames of video.
And I think the main drawback for me would be the changes in how you interact with the model. That click of the shutter and flash of the strobes helps you connect with your model and get into a rhythm. Each flash is an affirmation to them that they’re giving you what you’re looking for, and each flash gives them that moment of rest before the next pose.
I was also surprised by the kind of abrasive and obnoxious way Hurley interacted with his model… Is that his normal way of communicating with his subjects? Cause she didn’t really seem to be enjoying the whole thing much at all…
http://twitter.com/michaeltapp Michael Tapp
Cinema vision lent you a camera but they wouldn’t lend you a follow focus setup???
richardaevans2
I doubt very seriously the lady had a problem with Peter’s method, she was laughing here and there. Besides, he’s world renown friend- I think he knows a thing or two about how to interact with his talent! You do realize who you’re talking about, right????
richardaevans2
I know! Software that would, by a click, separate the frames so you could pick them out individually would be the answer. Still a lot of images to go through though.
http://www.facebook.com/TerrenceJerod Terrence Jerod
That was pretty cool……..now lets see the battle between 18 megapixel image from my t2i with 50mm 1.8 vs the Hasselblad H3D-22. I want to see Peter do a shoot with less than 1k in equipment! and then post the results…… lets see if the camera thats 10x more expensive gives 10x times better the results!
nlschlax
Ya, I’m aware of who he is and that he’s very successful and well-respected. But that doesn’t mean that his techniques are beyond critique. I’ve seen other headshot photographers, whose work I actually find more appealing than Hurley’s, who interact with their talent in a more collaborative and encouraging way, and I’ve always tried to work that way myself.
Honestly though, I think maybe it’s more of a NY culture thing. For a NYer, I’m guessing this is actually a pretty gentle tone. Just not what I’m used to.
http://www.michaelkormos.com/ Michael Kormos
Some differences:
Video is mostly shot at 1/50th of a sec (unless you’re shooting 60fps or higher). This is simply too slow and results in substantial motion blur.
current dSLRs rely on contrast detect autofocus (with the mirror up). This is both inaccurate and slow, and doesn’t perform well in low light.
Even the 1920x1080p video in latest dSLRs is far too low in terms of resolution. One day, when cameras as small as dSLRs can shoot video at, say, 20megapixels/frame, maybe then can this discussion have any merit.
Lighting: Weddings or any other types of events are much more easily lit with flash. Put forth continuous light, and things get difficult in every respect.
Personally, I don’t think professional photographers are going to be using video cameras anytime soon :-)
http://twitter.com/Injato Martin Tosterud
Although the results from the epic is impressive, there are still som drawbacks to consider. The epic is shooting at 1/120 (max) and will not be able to use flash. There are many scenarios where you will need flash to get that sharpness in the whole scene, if you are shooting a big setup in a studio. There will also be situations where 1/120 isn’t fast enough to produce sharp images. How is the dynamic range of that raw video? The discussion about the “awkwardness” Peter mentioned is also interesting. How does video vs stills affect the connection between the model and the photographer?
http://twitter.com/_edw edw
i’m studio manager, and we did the same versus (H1D22 vs REDone), the print was crazy and very interesting ! the red was a bit small for >A4 print but it was the crazy to did it !
i think the “revolution” already begin, look a the Nikon J1/V1 it shoot very fast a lot of frames and let you chose the picture you want !
today it’s a bit expensive to do it, but in 5/10years i’m sure we will use that kind of system !
http://www.facebook.com/3osaz Adrian Zaharia
Huge diference! Huuuge! I mean if you are a pro you can’t be happy, at least in digital format, with the quallity of that red shot! For me it looks like that frame was shot with a cheap dslr or a compact camera.
http://www.adrianzaharia.ro
http://www.clickudos.com/ Rohit kothari
wow 14mp red is having great detail then hasselblad how could it be possible i m great fan of hassel
http://www.facebook.com/jonmarkphoto Jon-Mark Wiltshire
The RED is noticeably softer.
http://twitter.com/KemalettinSert Kemalettin Sert
dont know shit about hassy but Red Epic shots 96FPS !!!!! whats max framerate for hassy? lol :)
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=593815823 George Tsai
For those of you discussing motion blur and shutter speed, if you know you are shooting for stills you can always increase the shutter speed. In his shoot from the preview frame grab of the video, he is shooting at 22.5 degree shutter. That equates to 1/384s shutter speed at 24FPS. Not a shutter speed you would typically use in video, most cases you would shoot 180 degree shutter or 1/48s at 24FPS.
The downside to this is you need that much more light, and with continues lighting it can generate a lot of heat compared to strobes.
Soon is a relative word, so really it’s up to anyone’s guess when or if photographers will eventually just shoot video and pull stills. What this does say is that there is definitely potential in this kind of workflow in still photography.
One note on the Epic is that eventually (when Red includes the feature in their updates) you will be able to tag points in the video as you shoot, setting markers for where you normally would be snapping a still shot. From there all those points show up in the Redcine-X program and from there you can choose to use that frame or look to see if any other frames nearby is better.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1096770826 Philip Orlandic
I have captured much sharper RED EPIC images then this one. That lens isn’t the best in sharpness. Rent out Zeiss Master Prime Marco 100mm and you will get Hasselblad sharpness.
http://www.rlmorris.com Lee Morris
That’s interesting… You think the lens is the bottle neck? The rental house said it was their sharpest lens. I would like to see another example now.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Eric-Hann/578359782 Eric Hann
Well, that’s a little much… You’ll still never get the same sharpness without having a 22MP sensor on the Epic as well.
http://www.patrickhallphotography.com Patrick Hall
Peter manually focuses….plus those cine lenses have a very long focus pull so the focus setup isn’t really necessary.
http://www.patrickhallphotography.com Patrick Hall
Peter shoots his hasselblad at 1/60th so I think it’s a mute point….they are both on a tripod and Peter directs them to find a pose and hold it
http://www.patrickhallphotography.com Patrick Hall
I know Peter nails the focus most of the time but it is possible he was off just a bit on this example. On the prints you cannot tell a difference
http://twitter.com/IAM_THE_KGB KGB
Just zoom in on the hairline, the Red goes to mush. No surprise there.
http://twitter.com/JoeyBPhoto Joey Buczek
The hasselblad won out IMHO. The Epic did nice overall, but it’s still not quite there quality-wise compared to the hassy (in this particular test.).
http://www.facebook.com/RPM777 Patryk T Molczan
Yes I agree. I’m impressed but 70K of images is not business smart vs 100 images. That said there is a beauty to pressing the shutter button and capturing a moment in time. This is a skill and talent. Can you just imagine photographing or capturing video for a wedding? Over a few million images to sort through.
Anyway… Great video! Thanks Lee.
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WZFNDSQFYXL2TP3NP2AVEQV32U RUSS
Red Epic Vs Hasselblad…
Both cameras I cannot afford.
If I hit the lottery,,, I’m buying one of each. :-)
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=713836775 facebook-713836775
Puuuh my H3dII-31 is not dead yet :-) But what if Medium Format Cameras get video? They are probably not far from it.
http://www.facebook.com/photopop Runolfur Gudbjørnsson
I have been trying to tell my clients that this is the way we are going to work on many cases in the future, but I have been having a tough time convincing anybody.. now I can just show them this video :)
But.. lets not overlook that the high sync speed of hasselblad is outstanding. It is going to be tough to catch a sharp frame when things are moving. doubling the framerate will compromise and lower the quality.
http://www.facebook.com/hollaender Thomas Hollænder
The exif on both images says Hasselblad….?
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1096770826 Philip Orlandic
Get this lens. http://www.arri.com/camera/lenses/35_format_lenses/master_macro_100.html
http://profile.yahoo.com/H3N2AAX42CFI5VF26MKMDYYKOE Nicholas
Wonderful video! I think if image quality results are what artists are solely going for, then sure, video capture for stills can and will happen. But based on the video here, there is an advantage to shooting stills in terms of… well… just shooting for stills. I think this video reaffirms why photography and the skills needed to seize a moment in time, will never die.
Scott Auerbach
Shutter angle is adjustable on the Epic, like all video cameras. Down to 1/2000 sec.
Scott Auerbach
quote “current dSLRs rely on contrast detect autofocus (with the mirror up).
This is both inaccurate and slow, and doesn’t perform well in low
light.
Even the 1920x1080p video in latest dSLRs is far too low in terms of
resolution. One day, when cameras as small as dSLRs can shoot video at,
say, 20megapixels/frame, maybe then can this discussion have any merit.”
Did you even read the article? We’re talking about a 15 megapixel camera. And it’s not using autofocus (though it will autofocus Canon lenses… VERY VERY fast.)
Scott Auerbach
Wrong.
Folks… let’s not spout stuff that you know nothing about. Shutter speed is as fast as 1/2000, and it DOES have a sync plug to shoot conventional stills with strobe.
http://twitter.com/Jimmy_Schaefer JimmySchaefer
I think the video is gonna be super good to use for the photographer but post production like Peter said is gonna take forever cause of how many frames your working with. The other thing is video render times at that resolution takes a longer time. The only real issue I truly see with video is unless its non tethered if something happens while recording to the flash card you essentially lose the entire shoot. I don’t know the RED enough to know if you can record it directly to a PC in the highest 4K quality.
Scott Auerbach
As someone who’s been working in both still and moving picture for 30+ years (everything from Leica to 8×10 view camera), and who owns an Epic, I’d like to ground this conversation in something different: reality. I’m reading a lot of stuff slung around on this page that bears no resemblance to fact.
Epic has a wide range of shutter speeds: 1/8 to 1/2000. It will shoot stills with strobe (in a future firmware update), though not with as fast a sync speed as a Hasselblad. You don’t have to increase the frame rate to get faster shutter speeds. You don’t lose any quality when you use a higher shutter speed. Even though Epic has a fairly conventional maximum sync speed, the only time I’ve ever needed sync speed above 1/100 is shooting outdoors with strobe fill. In a typical studio setting, the strobes provide all the light, and are capable of freezing typical action.
Sharpness: This really needed to be an apples-to-apples test. The difference in lenses between the two cameras may (or may not) have been critical. Will a 15 MP frame be as sharp as a 22 MP frame? Of course not. Is the difference *significant*? That depends on what you’re doing. Bear in mind that Epics are routinely used for Hollywood feature films where you’re viewing the image blown up to billboard size. How often do you sit in a blockbuster 4k digital movie and think, “boy, that’s not sharp enough”?
Depth of field is significantly different between the two. But fast (Zeiss T/1.3) lenses can get you back in the ballpark of f/6.3 on a Hasselblad.
Peter does bring up two good points: for someone used to quickly toggling through only 100 or so still images, scrubbing through video can be time-consuming. And the drive space needed to save the camera-original R3D files is massive. That said, drives get cheaper every year, and Epic does have a way of marking “I liked this moment” in-camera as it rolls. Apparently Peter didn’t know that.
And for Adrian, who thinks Epic looks like a cheap compact camera, I suggest you look at another few frames posted online:
http://camerarentalz.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/first-epic-image.jpg
http://camerarentalz.com/full-5k-image-mysterium/
Be sure to download them and view at actual size.
Is motion picture the end of still photography? Of course not. (But not for most of the reasons I’ve read in the comments above.) I will say this, however: I just completed a massive 2-week job on Epic, for both video and stills, eliminating the stills photographer they’d originally planned on hiring.
http://www.facebook.com/thekingjulian Julian Jones
I could be wrong, but when you export a frame from an R3D file as a .tiff, and open it in Photoshop, it’s document size resolution is 72 pixels/inch. This is something that I’ve noticed in most videos from DSLRs cameras when I frame grab. But the document size resolution from a Hasselblad still, is somewhere around 240-300 pixels per inch. With that being said, I believe that there’s greater resolution and image control from the Hasselblad image as is, un-resized, than that from the Red. But, I do feel that this kind of technology is getting close.
Also, shooting video, one would have to break the habit of 1. pose/frame 2.shoot, but to be more like do this motion for like 10 seconds. Also, I would think one would just trigger a flash manually and see what results one’s achieved.
http://www.patrickhallphotography.com Patrick Hall
no 72 is just the default dpi for photoshop. It doesn’t matter at all, you can change that to 300 to figure out the optimal print size.
http://www.patrickhallphotography.com Patrick Hall
really? Oops, I threw the Red image into the Hassy file to check the colors and then flattened it….I don’t think the original Red image had any EXIF data
proweddingphotog
Interesting but until technology enables production costs to come down to what most clients are willing to pay, then no video will not kill stills. All the wedding clients I book in a year won’t justify the ROI of adding Red to my overhead. ROI trumps image quality.
yoink32
Why do both of the shots contain metadata that says they were taken with the Hasselblad?
http://twitter.com/IAM_THE_KGB KGB
if you watched the video carefully….
In the end you’ll notice that Peter didn’t say “I’m buying me one of these RED cameras”.
Says it all doesn’t it?
ralev
Really cool experiment.
May be not now, but after 10 years – that’s gonna be the story.

Will Video Cameras Kill Still Photography? Red Epic Vs Hasselblad

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