On Photo Critiques: Treat Others How You Wish To Be Treated

On Photo Critiques: Treat Others How You Wish To Be Treated

I never went to college or any other secondary school for photography. I have been blessed to fall into this hobby turned career in an era when photographic knowledge is readily available online, and a vast amount of it is 100% free. However when it came time to make my work public on the web, the outcome wasn’t always pleasant. You see, constructive criticism is a great tool for learning and growing, but the keyword is constructive.

When I started getting into off camera lighting and trying to advance my skills I would post my work to my Flickr, and then subsequently to groups within Flickr. It was great, people would give me virtual high fives, and of course awards that sparkled and spun… Occasionally someone would come along and offer some constructive criticism. It would sting a little, but the insights they gave me helped me to continue to grow as a photographer. Then one day someone came along and ripped apart one of my photos, and then proceeded to go through my feed of photos and rip apart many older shots too. I don’t mean he ripped them apart and told me what was wrong and how they could be fixed, but he just proceeded to trash my work. It hurt. Here I had felt I had made so much progress and this individual took a proverbial dump on everything I had. I was left wondering if I should just give up, but even more, I was left wondering why this person was so mean to me? I know, I know, enough with the sob story already, but I promise this is going somewhere.

I am active in a couple different groups on Facebook and various other sites and forums. I truly enjoy sharing knowledge I have gained with others, because I wouldn’t be where I am at without the help of others. All too often though I come across a photographer that could use some help, but when I read through the comments I see people making rude and blunt remarks about their work. What good does making a sarcastic remark about someone’s work do for them? If you spent time and energy on something, and you were proud enough to put it on the web for critique, how would you feel if someone came along and just made fun of it? If you claim it wouldn’t bother you, I would like to meet you in real life, because I am certain you are a robot. Nobody likes being told their work isn’t good, but if you are going to tell someone their work is flawed, explain why, and how it could be corrected next time.

“If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all.” I am pretty sure we all heard this at some point in our lives. They are some very simple words to live by, and they will honestly help you in the long run. Think about it like this: you come across a photographer’s work and it could use some fixing up to be a more presentable image. You could tell this person it sucks and move on with your day feeling like you really schooled this wannabe, or better yet you could point out something you like, and then point out what you think could be improved and how to do it. Aside from good karma and the good feeling of helping someone, you have also made an impression on someone. Do you think the great photographers in history started out shooting the covers of major magazines? No way; they had guidance, they rose to where they are now, and I am willing to bet they never forgot the people who helped and mentored them along the way. You see, being helpful to your fellow photographer doesn’t just benefit them, in the long run it can benefit you as well.

In this internet era where so many of us are learning at home on our own, we are not getting the networking opportunities many of those who went to college for this got. Networking is key in this industry, because knowing people can go a long way. A lot of my close friends are photographers I have met via the internet. My girlfriend, who I have been with for three years now, started out as a Flickr contact. I know that there are some photographers who have given me some wonderful advice in my life who I have never forgotten. As I grew as a photographer and booked more work there were times when I couldn’t handle it all, and guess who the first people I recommended were? However guess who I would never recommend for a job? The guy who ripped out my still beating photographic heart and spit on it. He might be a great photographer, but on a personal level I do not like him, I most likely never will, and because of that I will probably never extend a hand to help him or send work his way.

So in conclusion sticks and stones may break my bones but words will- SHUT UP. Words can hurt, we have all been on the receiving end of criticism and hated it. So be nice to your fellow photographers, professional or hobbyist, you never know how their career will turn, and you never know how it could affect you…

…and on that note I leave you with this…

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http://twitter.com/atllam atllam
Trashing someone’s work is unnecessarily mean. But you said it yourself: you never went to school. I’m a 2nd year fine art photography student and as you can imagine we spend a lot of time critiquing other students’ work and receiving it from them and our instructors. We try to be constructive but being honest is more crucial because a constructive critique that softballs around the faults of a work does nothing. Most of my instructors are working pros and have dealt with their fair share of harsh criticism – they don’t tolerate lazy work and will let you know if they’re disappointed. If anything the classes in which the criticism was harsh forced students to work harder and develop thicker skin. The reality is that art directors don’t have time to be nice – they are blunt. Some students are truly not capable of doing professional work in this field. Not everybody will like your work and some will hate it. If you turn in bad work to a client you’ll be fired.
All that said, it’s nice to be nice.
Sean Lehan
this post sucks
Just kidding. Most outstanding. Party on dudes
http://disqus.com/AndrewGriswold/ Andrew Griswold
Funny, informative and very true. Thanks for the article and as always thanks for the reminder to pass on the knowledge to someone else. What do you and everyone else reading this think about 500px? I feel its quite the photo sharing site for learning and also getting great feedback and criticism from unbelievably talented photographers.
http://www.facebook.com/tilo.gockel Tilo Gockel
very true, and I have to admit, that I am not very open to critics .-) BUT: I learned a lot even through the meanest critic … so …
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1063035265 Soupy Head
can you post a link to the guy who trolled you? i’d love to see his work.
We know the truth
There are very few critique sites out there that actually have good critiques. If someone made fun of my photo, that would suck. But if they gave me an honest critique, I would LOVE that. The only critique site I use is Photosig. I’ve learned more from that site than I have anywhere else on the web.
http://www.grahamwinslowphoto.com/ Graham Marley
Be your own harshest critic. Enjoy your successes, but more than that, identify your weaknesses without mercy. Assume that you can always be doing better. At that point, outside criticism is immediately helpful when it’s constructive, and white noise when its not.
http://twitter.com/awphotographs Amy Willard
This is why the YouAreNotAPhotographer page on Facebook just isn’t funny anymore. We get it, people take bad photos, you don’t need to insult someone though.
jydalton
Blah blah blah!. Get over it! If you don’t like it then stop posting pictures or make your album private to the public. The only reason all of you are complaining is because none of you have gone to school and went through any of this, this is a typical learning process – as long as it is positive. We all critique each other’s images whether it is aloud or not, don’t you want to grow as a photographer? PS, if you don’t want to grow and have your images critiqued maybe you should find another career because this is just a hobby.
http://twitter.com/TimHenryPhoto Tim Henry Woodard
I am really confused about this post. Your saying you want people to critique your work but you don’t want them to be sharp and honest? Maybe Flickr is a better site for your work, honestly I don’t know I haven’t seen any of it. Here’s the thing, its your work and you know if its good or not. All of us are at different levels when it comes to our photography. Flickr and Facebook give up and coming, wannabees, or hobbyist a false sense of achievement. Honestly the best way to receive feedback is to get it in front of a photographer you look up to and watch the reaction on their face when they look through your images. The internet is typically going to be full of haters or lovers. In most cases your not going to get a decent critique on the internet. Maybe your work does suck, and you just needed someone to be honest? I know mine does, that’s why I keep trying to become better.
http://www.facebook.com/hiroschneider Jaron Schneider
“This sucks.” is not a critique. That’s the kind of thing we are talking about. “This sucks because…” is better.
http://www.facebook.com/natecain Nathan Cain
It really is quite simple for me. If someone asks ME for a critique, I give it to them. If someone posts a photo, just for documentation, and I like it, I will explain what I like. If I see something that looks unpleasing, I will make a note and try not to duplicate it in my own work, but will keep that comment to myself. I have never had anyone critique my work, but I believe I am my biggest critic. I am pretty confident nothing they could say isn’t something I haven’t already noticed. I have only taken 14,000ish pictures and of those I only like, maybe 4. And of those 4 I still nitpick, and haven’t put a single one into my portfolio.
Brendan Carlson
Nathan. I agree. I’m an amateur, not quite ready to go pro. I’ve been shooting for 5 years and have a large repository of images, that doesn’t qualify me to be a pro nor do I want to make this more than a hobby for now.
Deciding on what to add to the portfolio is the hardest part of this whole thing. I would probably really only add 3 images that I’ve ever taken to my portfolio, and the funny thing is that 2 of those images were unplanned and just happened because I had a camera with me.
Jillian Xenia
I agree, going to Fine Art school definitely changes your perspective. You learn to be harsh because the industries harsh. I tried to be honest with someone on 500px and went so far to say a minor edit would have done the world of difference…. Then got torn to shreds and told never ever to comment and I must be on my period to be so cruel.. Ugh it def goes both ways.
http://www.facebook.com/paul.davies.35513 Paul Davies
If you cant take it quit being such a bitch about it
Jillian Xenia
I think 500px is the worst site for critiques. None of the best and brightest I know use it because while the Editors choice are spectacular the popular page is just an annoying love fest.
Chris Vink
I wonder about the people behind those comments.. Is it the anonymity of the internet or are they like that in real life? I tend to enjoy my life and making others enjoy theirs makes me happier as well, why do people think it’s okay to be harsh to other people?
And I’m not saying I don’t like or can’t handle criticism, I just don’t get why this kind of trolling is fun..
Case in point:
“If you cant take it quit being such a bitch about it”
And another quote from above:
“This sucks.” is not a critique. That’s the kind of thing we are talking about. “This sucks because…” is better.
http://john-godwin.co.uk/ JPGodwin
Better still, instead of telling everyone how to behave, why not concentrate on how you react?
You want a million people to be nicer, when it would all mean nothing if the one person crying about it just manned the fuck up and learned to treat internet trolls for the meaningless non-issue that they are.
If someone tells you your work sucks, and you actually care, then that’s your problem.
http://profile.yahoo.com/FJMAVE4BFYYSRCKH574DYQBAJE yahoo-FJMAVE4BFYYSRCKH574DYQBAJE
I think the problem with the internet is that people forget they don’t know crap about the people they’re talking with. You don’t know if the guy whose work you’re trashing is someone trying to go pro or just an amateur wishing to learn. It might be perfectly ok to be a harsh critic in school or in a job, but out on the street you wouldn’t just address anyone telling them they dress ugly or their car sucks. They didn’t ask for your opinion.
And even when it’s time to be really honest, there’s ways to do it without being an ass. Being unnecessarily rude shows arrogance, and arrogance is just fear. I’ve never seen a really talented asshole.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=785893459 Daniel Smith
I think this is just a part of life. There are always going to be people who want to bring you down for whatever reason. The internet can be a fantastic forum for critique, but you’re exposing yourself to these situations even more. Furthermore, the critique you receive may/may not be valid. You mentioned that you never went to college or anything and have been taught online – that’s perfectly fine. However, sorting out the good information from the bad is a lot harder. You don’t know the credentials of the people giving their critique – they could be pro, they could be semi-pro; or on the other end, they could just be regurgitating information that they have read from photography mags; which aren’t necessarily great!
After finishing my degree in photography, I went on to the editors of newspapers, mags and press agencies and I can tell you that they do NOT give fantastic, constructive criticism of your portfolio. Did that make me want to give up? No way! As said previously, and I know it seems harsh, things like this you just need to toughen up a bit and cop it sweet.
http://www.facebook.com/david.crockett.71 David Crockett
If they are calling themselves a professional photographer, they better be prepared to have their work critiqued. I see way too many photographers that call themselves professional because they have a DSLR and no formal training and they simply SUCK!!! That is why there is that wonderful website youarenotaphotographer.com. I am sooooo sick of all these people out there with no formal training calling themselves professionals and have absolutely no idea what they are doing. If you are a professional and are actually good at it, you should have no problem with people critiquing your photographs. If you get a bunch of rude comments about them, then maybe you actually do suck and should either find a different job or actually take some classes!
jydalton
Thank you, Mr. Obvious, I know what a critique is. And like I said … We all critique each other’s images whether it is aloud or not, don’t you want to grow as a photographer? I’m not saying that posting “This sucks” is the best thing to do but maybe it will give you a push to do something better. Maybe you can spiral that rage into something outstanding, into a new work that is amazing.
http://twitter.com/Thomasl2003 Thomas lawn
I don’t have a 500px account, but I know what you mean about love fests. Do you know of any websites where you’ve been able to get reliable constructive critique? Everywhere I’ve tried is either love or hate, with no constructive advice.
http://www.facebook.com/CodyWaynePhotography Cody Wayne Bridges
I think people should start shooting for themselves rather then pleasing critics. Art can not be taught, only explained. It is trough hard work, persistence, and trial and error that we find our nitch, taste, and style.
http://twitter.com/DMcGPhotography Daniel McGarrity
Used to belong to a forum, user asked if an image was to artistic for the client.
I responded with an accurate assessment,, it was blurry, subjects heads were down, half of one subjects head was out of the frame, and the whole image was overexposed by 3 stops. The photographer attempted to fix by converting to black and white.
I gave pretty much that critque and added that it wasn’t artistic, it was just an image that shouldn’t be shown to the client. Some found the last part “mean” I hardly think that was mean, and the photographer clearly was listening to something other than rules of thirds, or any type of compositional idea and just was grasping at straws.
So, to the OP, when should the critique be taken as critique and when does the photographer simply recognize someone who is only trying to be negative?
As someone looking for critique, you do not get to passively accept all that is said, you must discern, you must decode, and if it’s as obvious as you describe, you must delete the kind of critique you are getting.
Abstract aesthetics will crush the life out of the realist, and visa versa, you must be prepared for picking through those types of incompatible view points.
However the ultimate goal is one you must find for yourself, to work (i.e. to sell you photography) or to experiment for yourself? One pays the bills and can make the soul sing, the other …..
Carlie R
i think there is a lot of criticism out there. but the problem some people have is the attitude if i buy an expencive camera i can start calling myself a photographer. Or i have a slr i don’t need to hire a photographer. there is a lot of uneducated, inexperenced people calling themselves photographers and it is a big threat to the industry. it is possible if you call yourself a photographer and your work doesn’t reflect that then there are people that will be horrible, partially because your a threat or an insult to the profession. Also there are a lot of photographers that keep their knowledge close to their chest because the competition the majority of photographers give their knowledge by holding workshops and teaching at university’s there is not much you can get for free. books are a good way to go.
the best way to get constructive criticism is to either get an education in photography or join a camera club.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1070235626 Trevor Dayley
It’s “allowed” not “aloud”
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1070235626 Trevor Dayley
….again it’s “allowed” not “aloud” – just trying to help you out.
jydalton
I know what the difference between “allowed” and “aloud” is, how about you learn to read and understand what a person is writing. Should I have said “out loud” so you would have understood it better, maybe you also need to go back to school…. or should I say “go to school”.
http://twitter.com/codiac2600 Chris Warkocki
I believe he means aloud in the fact you said it so someone can hear it versus thinking it only in your head and not expressing your feelings. Being a grammar nazi also doesn’t help when you’re wrong.
http://twitter.com/codiac2600 Chris Warkocki
I’m going to write a counter article on how everyone should grow thicker skin and accept criticism of all types. I understand where this is coming from but let’s play a little game called growing a pair. You noticed off the bat that the person was just making fun of your work and purposefully being mean so why the sad face? You have to accept criticism from people who actually matter and not from random people who don’t even care to spend the time to tell you why it’s bad. Idiots by far out number the intelligent. When your work gets fluffed by people who just write “good work” or “great job” all the time is worse in the long run. Learn to grow a thick shell and absorb the comments that help you out from the people who you should be listening to and not become so hard pressed to leave photography because one person who doesn’t matter didn’t stroke your ego. When I started professionals and amateurs ripped my work about and I learned quickly to weed out the comments and find who actually knew what they were talking about and used their impact only. Now that my only income is from photography my only critic are my clients and coworkers. I strive to continue my photographic education so when I feel I need help I’ll ask photographers of higher caliber to give me advice on my work and help me understand my mistakes. Then I apply what I’ve learned and move on. Plus facebook is a horrible format to share your pictures anyway lol!
http://profile.yahoo.com/6VEA6HACWXRIGO2NVBGWXVLB6M harry
If you post it on the internet, whichever site it may be, it’s open for critique whether people want it or not. When someone uploads a photo you are virtually uploading a digital art gallery. What do people in art galleries do? They say what’s good and what’s bad about whatever the heck they are trying to interpret.
All too often the world practices a PC mindset and caters to one’s feelings. The world has grown soft and the internet has helped the world go soft.
While I may not agree with the original post, I do agree with some comments posted in response. Grow a pair and stand up to your work or ask what’s wrong and what can be fixed.
http://www.chromaticaversion.com/ Kyle Sanders
And likewise, be mindful of your audience. Every site, gallery, and collection has it’s own personality and following, so don’t look for praise when you post over the top HDR to Fstoppers – send it to StuckInCustoms, or street shots to RangeFinderForum.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=847470423 Louis Rafael Rosenthal
i love you for that trevor. in a “awesome, bro” kind of way.
http://www.facebook.com/michael.warth Michael Warth
Visual art is highly subjective. Did it “suck”? Maybe it did, and maybe he was just a dick. All criticism should be taken with a grain of salt and the original artist/photographer then chooses how to accept or disregard the criticism. As artists, we can ignore the trolls…criticism is a tool to polish your art. As harsh as some can be, they can also be your best tool to sharpen your skills. If you want praise when posting an image online or on the wall, ask your grandma to look at it — if you want an honest opinion, ask a stranger who isn’t afraid to hurt your feelings.
With that said, it’s OK to tell someone they did a good job, or you like it too. All of us can improve — all of us.
http://profile.yahoo.com/SQ6PKG3OSO4ESIMJJO2YEEC77M Alex
Try Photosig. Although “critiques” there could be very harsh as well.
http://twitter.com/JT__photography James Tarry
Very apt timing. This very topic is a discussion i had with a fellow photographer this week after i had witnessed a friends decent images being ripped apart over minor petty things by other “photographers” on Flickr who seemed to think they were marvellous photographers… i personally refuse to use Flickr, for various reasons but one being this. My main issue was that while these people felt it perfectly acceptable to critique someone elses work when i was viewing theirs they didnt like anything remotely negative being said about theirs and got all huffy! I dont mind debate, or genuine critique but when its vicious or not remotely helpful its better to say nothing at all and keep your opinions to yourself-esp when your work is weaker than water! ;)
I go by the rule, if i dont like your work I dont say anything but If i like it i will and If you ask for critique then i will be honest and HELPFUL.
Carlie R
ok here is a constructive critique. no lensflair. no taking pictures up models noses. no boring shots of models in doorways. you need to change your perspective. leading lines. steapened perspective. angles of a model, they need to look interesting. not bored. if the place your taking a photo is dirty and its not ment to be (the pool) get a broom.
Anders Petersen
“Treat Others How You Wish To Be Treated”
So in other words, “really fucking harshly”.
I can’t get better if noone tells me what to get better at. Of course people saying “Your photo is bad and you should feel bad” isn’t exactly helpful, but people saying “This is great!” or “You’re a genius” can fuck the fuck off.
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KGIHBUQPQNYO4DHTY233WCSDYQ Jacques
He meant to say ‘out loud’.
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KGIHBUQPQNYO4DHTY233WCSDYQ Jacques
’Out loud’.

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