UPDATE: Good Morning America has taken down the video and article.
Original Story: What are the best ways to save money on your wedding day? Good Morning America (GMA) ran a story recently in which their soon-to-be wed reporter Ginger Zee recommends contacting your local school to reach out to someone interested in photography. That by hiring a student you'll save $8000 on your wedding photos.
In her story Zee gets advice from her planner Francesco Bilotto. His advice on photography is this, "The best thing to do is contact your local school - find somebody that wants to build a career with their skills. Nine out of 10 you'll save $8,000 just paying for the cost of their camera, their developing and their time. You've made a college kid happy and you've got some great photos."
While I do believe that there are lots of options available for people who are looking to hire a photographer on a budget - I'd hope that brides were better informed about what actually goes into taking wedding photos. We could make a long list of reasons why you should pass on hiring someone untrained to photograph your wedding. Here are just a few reasons.
1. This person most likely has never shot a wedding and doesn't understand the timeline or flow of the day.
2. This person doesn't have backup equipment.
3. This person doesn't have experience using lighting - probably doesn't even own a flash.
4. This person has no experiencing posing couples.
5. This person is most likely too busy to edit your photos anytime soon. Can you wait 6 months till school finals are over?
Click here to read the article and watch the video going over the money saving tips.
Brides-to-be if you are out there and listening. Please don't take this advice from Zee and Bilotto. It is terrible. You will regret it every time you look at your photos, that is if you even get them back. Hire a professional, someone with experience and someone you can trust will take care of you. If you have absolutely no money to commit to wedding photography - well then yeah go find yourself a student that is interested in photography - but just know that your photos won't look like all those you love looking at on Facebook and Pinterest.
Call it the "What Could Possibly Go Wrong?" wedding package.
Yes!
Why stop at the photographer? Hire a local culinary school student to serve three courses for 100+people. Just buy their pots and ingredients! While you're at it... student pastry chef, student makeup artist, student hairdresser, student florist (or someone who owns a garden behind their house). You could even hire a student driver for the limo!
You forgot the student tailor/designer for the tux and dress!
Student pastor???
Hahah exactly, what could go wrong hiring a student (or amateur as we are actually talking about) for any of these things?
Student wedding planner
Well, sure, if I was within distance of the Culinary Institute of America I'd hire a senior in a heartbeat. Any one of them would blow away 99% of working pros.
I understand where you're coming from, but you're basically assuming that no one in school can shoot a wedding. If one were to reach out to the right people you could probably find some good options. I understand that these people might not be full time, but if you go to the right place and talk to a professor that gives a shit, they will probably be able to recommend a student that is completely capable or may even shoot weddings part time. Either that or they'll tell you to hire a professional.
I can also see where this could go horribly, horribly wrong.
Chances are if they are in school and shoot weddings part time they may be cheaper but they probably have the experience to be charging at least a couple thousand. $9000 seemed a bit high to say that's what a professional wedding photographer costs. Guess it depends on the city but I know more than a few who charge closer to $5000
Markets vary greatly. There are people in New York who charge $20,000 for wedding and some in little towns like mine who can't go over $2500 without scaring everyone away.
and still the rule for photographers is: shoot your first weddings free/for 500bucks or by assisting a photographer for free/200$.
for a new photographer:
out of all of these options the most lucrative is the 500$ for shooting first wedding.
second most lucrative but probably best in the long run, assisting a photographer.
worst is shooting for free, and still it is a very widely given advice to new photographers.
so yes its a good tip, getting a beginning photographer. if their lucky he is overqualified just need real life practice. if their unlucky, they might have to hope that actual guests got some good shots.
as long as you know that you get what you pay for.
I have a better idea why don't the bride and groom attach of go Pro to their heads and film the whole event. This will keep it within their budget so everybody will be happy. It's just amazing how little money student photographers are actually charging without knowing that they are essentially destroying the industry that they will have to depend on if they turn professional.
"Its very smart to get a very good photographer with no business sense, who sells full size digital files of all photos for 2000k"
I did. I got a full time pro to give me all of the RAW files just for a 2 hour shoot for $750 flat (and she came with a 2nd shooter/apprentice). She was very good and I was able to view about a dozen of her prior albums at an Expo. For me it was my 2nd marriage and I didn't want a full day package- I just needed 2 hours. Then again, I am a pro with over 35 years of experience and did all my own post. All depends on your situation.
She walked away clean at a rate of 375/hr. Not bad at all. My own day rate shooting commercial is $1500 plus expenses. I think many wedding shooters are far overpriced @ $5000 and I've worked with more than a few that didn't know jack about some basics - they'd shoot P with TTL direct and could tell you a Kelvin from an oven.
"probably doesn’t even own a flash" yes, because if your wedding photographer doesnt own a flash, pick a stone and smash it into his face. -_-
why a student cant own a flash? why a student cant edit photos in a legit deadline? so a student cant work like a pro? if its about experience thats a good reason, but really, there are some offensive reasons...
I don't really think ti's offensive at all...
These are potential risks that you can take on when hiring a student. I as a student am trying to build up my experience and portfolio but I have encountered all the things on the list as
1. the first time I shot a wedding, I didn't know the sequence of events and was rushed and whatnot but I still did get some nice pictures.
2. I definitely did not have backup equipment. I had what I had, and my assistant had what they had.
3. Lighting, wasn't a big issue for a wedding at least from my personal experience.
4. I definitely struggled with some poses for a couple to be married as I had no experience with that but I made do with what I had.
5. I definitely had other deadlines like school but I still made editing a priority considering it was a paid job and I met the set deadline which I told them I'd have the pictures by.
I got an phone call from a pro photographer that recommended a student videographer because the Bride was on a $1,000 budget for a wedding videographer. She was wondering if I could fix the footage. The photographer is now being sued by the Bride because she recommended someone that royally screwed up her wedding film. Everything is okay with the Bride until she realizes she screwed up and now she sues. Happens all the time.
that I will never understand, why sue when you obviously made the wrong choice yourself. How hard is it to use your own brain, its not like she had to follow the advise of the photographer. I love america, but this is the one thing that I can't understand, its just so stupid.
Of course a student can do a great job… but there is a reason why companies prefer employers with experience too. You have to admit that you really know what 'working' is about when you work at a company… school is actually playtime, without real responsibilities.
I know student photographer - he is waaaaay better than many 'pro' photographers in my area. Problem is that a lot of 'pro' photographers just don't learn new stuff - because they think they've made it. This is of course bad attitude. But in my area it is a common thing.
Like I said, it's always possible there are exceptions. But it's all about taking chances. On the other hand, with wedding photography, I doubt that there will be 'new' stuff to learn, like new techniques or technology. Wedding photography is more about being social, knowing how to handle people and stress of the moment… and that's not something you learn at school, but through experience and getting older :-)
Well, some 'pros' don't know simple techniques like bounce flash or rim lighting... And this could be problem :D And yes, experience is really important, but you have to get it somewhere ;)
Well, i advice the brides who want to contract his services to hire any one curious about how it is to plan a wedding. Just paying for the cost of their computers. They will make some curious very happy and save a fucking lot of money.
"developing", eh?
While I agree that brides should be informed about making a decision on their wedding photographer, I'm a little insulted that it is assumed that students are incapable of doing those five things listed. I know plenty of young people and students who are just as talented, or in some cases even more talented than their older counterparts. Brides should be concerned with talent; not age. Age and traditional education level don't determine talent and skill level.
Megan, the word student is basically referring to someone doing this for the first time. In other words an amateur. Hence the reason they are saying you can get the person for cheap. In fact they are basically saying they will be happy with the experience. I know a number of photographers that are amazing and shooting weddings often that are students. So it's not saying you can't be amazing and a student in school... but what I am cautioning against is that people take GMA's advice here and think that they will be happy with their wedding photos if they hire someone with no experience doing this in the past.
I do agree with you that brides shouldn't hire someone with no experience! I guess the way this is written just makes it seem like it's assumed that a student has no skill. I do understand now that you've clarified!
This isn't a talented young people vs untalented old people here. Skill and talent have almost nothing to do with wedding photography. Talent is about potential. All the talent in the world doesn't make up for real world experience, and the understanding of how a wedding is shot or the gravity of the event. A talented "eye" doesn't make up for lack of understanding of different lighting situations, correct lens and ISO choice, not to mention wrangling groups of people and dealing with clients' demands. You're pretending that the professional photographers or "older counterparts" as you want to call them, were never also once supremely talented young students too. They were. Then they got better. Through experience.
I know students too. I had classes with them.
Of the 200 I took photo classes with, only a fraction of them were serious.
I have to chime in here on the "I was a bride on a budget" side of things. I understand a lot of photographers do this as their profession, and one day want to be a professional photographer myself, but fact of the matter is, most photography packages would have cost me more by themselves than my entire wedding (dress included) cost. I couldn't afford a professional photographer and still have a wedding. So, I used an amateur photographer. But, I did so with the understanding of the 5 points you made. Instead of telling women it's debt or nothing, we should be educating them on the challenges of using an amateur photographer, and how to do so in the safest way possible. Here's a few of those points for you.
1) Helping them understand the flow of the day is now your job as the bride. You research it, you write up charts and lists and find another friend to manage people. I had a friend whose entire job was to direct the photographer. He thought about photography, she thought about oh, we need a picture with mom and dad. It lowered pressure on both people. Also, have a detailed meeting with them before hand, and do some engagement photos. If the photographer can't do these two things, they probably won't be reliable for your wedding. Our photographer did both.
2) is it possible to have back up equipment available? The proliferation of DSLRs is very high, many people buy them and they sit on the shelf. I'm sure you could find a friend who would either shoot back up, or allow their camera to be available for back up. With the money you're saving, you can purchase back up batteries and memory cards yourself. Doubling up these things would be less than a couple of hundred dollars.
3) Flashes are more common these days, but again, maybe you can work something out with the photographer, or like I did, plan things where it's not necessary. Have a daytime wedding, a venue with a lot of natural light, and be smart about your light. I planned where our ceremony was and the important parts of our reception based on the available light. All of the important photos are well lit.
4) Again, they may not have experience, but you can find photos and websites to help. You could have a whole packet of take a picture of the bride and groom, use this pose with a picture next to it. Again, a lot of work for the bride, but it can be improved. Also, my posed pictures are fine, my favorites are the candid photos. If a bride likes lifestyle/photojournalistic photography, she might be okay using an amateur who has strengths in those areas.
5) There's multiple ways this can be handled. The photographer could be good enough to actually handle the deadline and get the photos to you. Or, maybe the photographer leaves you to edit the photos. Or, you could work out some other system. Again, can be overcome, but is a different challenge.
The point is, don't scare brides off, educate them. The ones who should be using professionals will be swayed by this, the ones (like me) who aren't in the position to use professionals, will be better able to handle amateurs/students.
Great advice!
Agreed!
Could we please see a gallery of your wedding photos taken in this manner ? I am really curious what came out of this process, and in this case, showing an example could mean a lot to future brides.
I don't have a gallery readily available, but here are a few pictures available from my old blog. As I said in the post, everything is not perfect, but I saved a ton of money, and since my option was amateur photographer or nothing, I'm very happy with what I have. These are far superior to anything I would have had otherwise, and ultimately he did this for free. I think many women on a budget, like myself would be very happy with this situation.
http://it-takes-2.blogspot.com/p/our-wedding.html
I also found this post which has a few more pictures on it. Another note, my photographer and I agreed that I would be responsible for editing most of my photos. He edited a select few for me (as we agreed) but the rest I was supposed to do. These were done several years ago, and my skills have improved. When I print/use one of these photos now, I tend to re-edit them...my skills have improved!
http://it-takes-2.blogspot.com/2011/06/wedding-to-z.html
I understand the point this is making and would definitely advise one to hire a professional if you can afford it; however, as a student, I find it this a bit demeaning to the younger population that will be eventually taking over for those professionals. I have shot a wedding, have experience with lighting and although I don't own backup equipment, if I am shooting a wedding, I will rent or borrow backup equipment. I don't think you need to blatantly write off all student photographers in this way. We are, after all, in school to LEARN about photography and have had some training. Obviously, the student status is the reason why we would charge less. So the tradeoff in this case for cheaper work is maybe having to wait a little while longer for the photos, not getting as many photos or professional quality or whatever. Those tradeoffs are why we cost less. Anyone thinking of hiring a student should obviously recognize that. Of course, I would advise any couple looking for a wedding photographer to not just focus on the cost and find the cheapest person possible, but to weigh all options. If you can find a student whose work you like and can trust to shoot your wedding, then do them a favor and help them out. If you are worried a student can't do the job, then find a professional. Simple as that.
Jessica this article was just in response to how many of us professionals who have worked hard to learn our craft and invest in our gear feel after hearing a popular morning news show say that there is really no need to pay us for our services because someone just learning can do just as good a job. In other words they are trying to downplay the importance of what we do. That stings a bit.
I explained in my above comment that I understand the point of the article, but I think it was written the wrong way. Instead of educating consumers on why you should hire a professional if you can and explaining the tradeoffs when hiring a student, it just generalizes all student photographers as basically incompetent. I am trying to point out that you shouldn't scare everyone into hiring a professional. If that happened, these students couldn't get any experience and that can really screw them once they graduate and are looking into making their photography a career. Obviously, I don't agree with Good Morning America, but I don't agree with this article either. As a student, THIS stings. It downplays the experience and training I do have and writes me off as incompetent because of my age and education level. Obviously I am not a professional, but that's why I'm in school.
Weddings can be a quirky business. While I have no doubt students can competently shoot a wedding, I think one angle that has been overlooked is the actual peace of mind you get with hiring a professional meaning they own a business.
Obviously there can be some exceptions to the rule, but almost every person you hire for your wedding is going to have a business license, hopefully insurance, reviews (for better or worse), and a sense of reliability built into their business. Businesses live and die on customer service and customer satisfaction. Perhaps that is the single most important reason to hire a professional; they are going to treat the wedding like it's a very very important event because the photographer has something to lose both in financial liability but also in reputation.
I was a student not too long ago, and I was young to all things "the real world" and "adulthood". Looking back, even though I considered myself more responsible than the average person my age, it could have been easier for me to justify calling in sick or missing an important shot than it currently is with my business on the line as an adult.
So while I have no doubt that younger less experienced photographers can adequately cover a weddings just fine, I can also see a lot more problems arising if the bride wasn't happy for some reason, decided to take the photographer to court, something happened at the wedding and a guest was hurt or tripped over a bag, the student didn't show up on time but doesn't have a proper business to hold accountable, etc etc.
In the end, I think there are those type of brides who want the absolute best and then those who find some of the wedding elements less important than others (people book me all the time that clearly don't really care about photography). If you want to overlook something or go a cheaper route, that is fine, but there are usually potential risks to doing so and unfortunately those risks usually only show their head at the absolute worst time when it's too late.
I think that is an excellent point and definitely something a bride should consider if they're thinking of hiring a student. Like I said earlier, it's important to weigh the pros and cons and recognize the tradeoffs of hiring someone with less experience.
If I could go back and start over, I'd have shot 2nd for literally 20-30 weddings before shooting first. I never blew it (by some miracle) but that's not the point. A massive part of being a good wedding photographer has nothing to do with what you can do with a camera, it's all about managing a ton of virtual strangers across a huge variety of situations and emotions. The logistics are what create the good opportunities for a photographer to make something good, and you can only get a solid understanding of the logistics over time, comparing and contrasting different situations, different reads on different people, knowing when to say no and when to push people a little.
Think of it like this: You walk into a hotel room that's 10 degrees too warm, 2 stops too dark with 4 colors of light. There's 13 women in the room, and you need to find space to shoot the dress, shoes, rings, garter, invites, programs, jewelry, bouquet (don't forget grandma's brooch attached to the bouquet) veil, moments with mom, moments with dad, moments with all the bridesmaids, bridesmaids in their custom robes and then in their dresses, bride getting into the dress, into the veil, and so on. Meanwhile, there's a baby crying, a vendor is late so the bride is stressed, the videographer is great, but doesn't speak english, so you're trying to negotiate the space and share shots, and you have to be an upbeat, positive presence keeping people happy for photos. You have 45 minutes until the limo comes. That's just the start of your day.
Graham ... fantastic and VERY clear explanation.
I wish have your calm to type it because I already scream so loud here that my wife came to see what's happen.
I HOPE all the people read your text. And THINK before put their hands on the keyboard to answer you.
I just one think to add: for two years I did everything to be a Wed Photog. I spend so much money in gear that Zack Arias will kick my arse if he could.
And I had the same type of thoughts of the "offended students" here.
When I finally got a chance and REALLY UNDERSTOOD what means to be one, I decided to spent the last 3 years to LEARN to be a REAL ONE.
The people just think about PICTURES meantime there is SO FREAKING MUCH MORE THINGS INVOLVED!!!
I always was known as a "no-fear"person.
But just the fact we can FUCK-UP (sorry) a whole "for-life of memories" from two people + 2 families + "whatever" related ... PLUS your career!
I don't think any professional here is concern with their own.
But differently than a heart or brain operation, photography is a profession that anyone can learn even without school. Even blind people can! (google it ...).
But exactly the same as those profession I cited, a"key" mistake will screw up a day that never you can repeated as it was ...
Thank you Graham.
I think you might be taking this a little too far and thinking of the worst case scenarios. I'm a student (18yrs old) and I was recently requested to photograph a wedding. Although it was completely new (I'd never even been to a wedding before), the shoot turned out great, I was glad to get the experience and the pay check ($700 + flights, so far less than the average professional, however, enough for me). The clients and I, were both very happen with the end product. Also, even though I'm a student, I do own and know how to operate a flash... I feel that your thinking a bit too lowly of us...
In great conditions you can get easy results... now think about that poor bride if something went wrong. Massive Rainstorms (pros are prepared), Near Black conditions (pros carry superfast glass), Uncooperative kids (we know the tricks), Makeup runs late (we know what shots are necessary and how to double time)
You can do your own electrical wiring too... it isn't that difficult. Plus you can roast marshmallows when the house burns down.
Ryan I posted a comment to Megan below that might be worth reading. I think it will explain things better.
No, you're jyst raking offense to the fact that the other 95% of students have zero idea what they're doing.
You're the exception. Not the norm.
Then again, you're probably slowly killing the market. Eventually it will go the way of the web design market. Took a real tumble when students started charging something like ten bucks a page.
You get what you pay for, sure, but surely every industry needs to maintain a certain standard in pricing. Otherwise how are professional photographers (ie, those who make a living solely out of being a photo/videographer) supposed to survive?
You might be happy with your 700 bucks, but that's 700 bucks that could have gone to a photographer who need the money more than nice pocket money for a student.
and every time you start to forget the horror, just look at the pictures to freshen your memory
The link is dead for the article. I guess they decided they didn't like pissing photographers off.
The key there is what are the expectations of the bride. If all she's looking for is someone to document the event, then the advise seems reasonable. But why stop there? If all you're looking for is a budget ceremony, say your vows before a judge and have your reception at a McDonald's.