[News] WTF!? Another Reason I Won’t Shoot Weddings.

wtf [News] WTF!? Another Reason I Wont Shoot Weddings.

It’s no secret, I hate shooting weddings. I’ve always felt that way and then Lee took me on an actual wedding gig and confirmed two things. 1) I really do hate shooting weddings and 2) I’m pretty shitty at it. They are way too much work, way too many creative restrictions, way too little lighting options and way to many guys and gals running around with cameras, far better than mine, pretending to be photographers. Don’t even get me started on the potential for having to deal with bride-zillas. And now this story caught my eye, where a client is suing a studio for missing the last 15 minutes of his wedding. Sounds reasonable, you say? Well get this: not only was the wedding done in 2003, but the client is also divorced and is suing to have the whole wedding reinacted for $48,000 plus the original $4100 fee. Studio owner Dan Fried says that the cost of defending themselves in court has already matched the sum demanded by Remis (the client), and calls the case “…an abuse of the legal system.” I can’t wait to see all your comments on this one, so leave them below.

via [NewYorkTimes] [PetaPixel]

From Kenn:
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November 4, 2011

Kenn Tam

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http://twitter.com/avfreq C
Hey FS. Love yalls site. I totally agree, I hate weddings and or anything of that nature. Wont do it. @avfreq:twitter
Evansville Sights & Sounds .
The photog should file a counter suit for damages and cost of legal aid.
http://www.rlmorris.com Lee Morris
This is an abuse of the legal system but it does make a hilarious story. Can’t wait to hear how this ends.
http://twitter.com/MadKeanePhotos Andrew Keane
Hopefully the photographer will win and will be awarded legal costs from this selfish %$#@^%#
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1353257020 Jordan Murphy
Yeah, I’m interested to know what happens here. I agree that he should file a counter-suit. It really takes a lot of crazy to demand the whole wedding be reenacted eight years after the wedding when he’s not even with the bride anymore! Any judge with half a brain would throw the case out, or award a counter-suit to the photographer. Don’t you think this has damaged the photographers reputation? Honestly, I’d like him to chime in here!
Rusty Bryant
unbelievable, yet very believable.
http://www.facebook.com/martinpbooth Martin Booth
As posted in the F*** You pay me video recently, this is why contracts are super super important for working professionals.
Really hope the photog can get his money back on all this.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Carlos-Bruno/1499457540 Carlos Bruno
I REALLY miss the time to solve some f*ggy questions like that (why do you think she got divorce from this idiot … huh?), you go there punch this mofo (look his face is PERFECT to be a sand bag!) several time … broke an arm or two and wait for any reaction. Well, means still ready to be punched again …
Well … for some of you will come and say: “VIOLENCE doesn’t solve anything” I will send the question back as ” IF this (other) mofo of this judge – who allows the case run – was doing this AGAINST YOU, and you lost to buy the new CANON (huh? huh?) … one couple of hundred punches won’t resolve? REALLY?
http://twitter.com/TheDarkRoomCo The Dark Room Co.
this qualifies as insane.
http://www.facebook.com/kai.plews Kai Plews
Almost every photographer I know has a wedding horror story. It seems like a right of passage. My not so close friends and family stopped asking me to do it when I told them I’d do it for $15,000. I do have a great respect for the determined/crazy folks who do weddings for a living its a tough racket.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=694282177 August Young
Stupid is as stupid does… who leaves a wedding 15 min before it was over??? i don’t think either party is right in this matter but who am i to say….
I agree with Kenn… DONT SHOOT WEDDINGS!!! Drink more beer play more poker and forget about marriage in general hahhha…
SINGLE FOR EVERRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1215260719 Matt Estrada
I love the first line to your response haha. I’m gonna quote you on that someday.
http://profiles.google.com/simon.lynchsae Simon Lynch
It’s a pretty good thing that in Quebec there is a law against “personal right abuse”.
Basically, if someone is within their right but want to apply that right just for shits and giggles, well the judge will not side with that person. Even within their rights…
We may live in “the north” and play hockey, but we don’t have those dumbass situation hahaha!
Anonymous
I’m with you OP. Weddings DOOOOO suck unless its yours. Everything you mentioned is true. HATE HATE HATE weddings. My brother had his wedding and even he was acting like a jerk and he likes me. The shots are basically meaningless to them with an exception of a few yet they want you to shoot a zillion meaningless photos of weird looking people and a bride that doesn’t even really look that hot with her prom hair style. And then you see the groom acting like a d-bag or some kind of wannabe wallstreet tycoon. The photographer gets to hear and see all the REAL personalities before people fake it up for the crowd.
I would prefer to shoot brides and grooms solo, before or after their wedding date. Plus I’m a guy, and most guys are not going to shoot weddings as good as women of the same skill level. Why? Because we honestly don’t give a crap about the bead work on your boring, looks like everyone else’s, dress. Now there is an exception to this but not many.
I would bet my sexy fuji x100 most wedding shooters would prefer to be shooting for Vogue or some other magazine but can’t or don’t believe they have the skill but they want to make money behind the camera because they love photography, thus they shoot weddings.
I have seen Lee’s interior photography and honestly, he needs to be shooting some of that stuff too.
Mike M
“he also complained that the photographs were “unacceptable as to color, lighting, poses, positioning”
Then choose another studio when you’re hiring people, or shoot it yourself.
“Mr. Remis, an equity research analyst” Clearly he’s a true artist that would know good color, lighting, and poses if they hit him in the face. Positioning is just another B.S term for someone who doesn’t understand wedding photography for crap.
“and that a video, which he had expected to record the wedding’s six hours, was only two hours long.”
Videos get edited occasionally, news to you entitled analyst.
“Mr. Remis’s lawyer works for Goodwin Procter, where Mr. Remis’s father, Shepard M. Remis, is a litigation partner. The younger Mr. Remis has testified that he is paying his lawyer himself. ”
Entitled. I was more right than I thought.
He hasn’t been employed for 3 years… and is paying $50,000 legal fees? Either that (which I highly doubt) or they’re only charging him something ludicrously low like $1 an hour since his father is a head honcho there.
“I had a good life, thank God,” Curt Fried said, “and at the end of my life this hits me in the face.”
Couldn’t say that any better.
Just want to end it with:
“Mr. Fried said Mr. Remis left the studio in 2004 with 400 proofs — essentially small photographs used for selecting a few dozen photographs for the album; Mr. Remis claims “the office kept everything.”
But a 2004 magazine published by Mr. Remis’s alma mater, Bowdoin College, which is also online, displays a photograph of the bride and groom in a feature on alumni weddings.
Mr. Fried said it was a photograph his firm took. ”
Wow. Can’t really explain the hubris in this one.
http://www.patrickhallphotography.com Patrick Hall
Ha it’s crazy so many people are hating on weddings…if you are prepared (experienced), personable, and hire assistants there should be no reason any wedding should be stressful. Hopefully our wedding series about to launch will make shooting weddings less prone to failure :)
Anonymous
My studio had a horror story too. The video assistant put video lights too close to the ceiling and the sprinkler system. Well turns out you cannot shut off the sprinklers if they go off, only fire department can do it. And they showed up like 20m later.
EVERYTHING was covered with water, the bride, all the tables, the cake, most of the guests, all band equipment. There was so much water it started dripping to the floor downstairs. The wedding was ruined.
The studio got sued for 60K, insurance paid it all off thank god.
http://twitter.com/MrNuyoka Mr. Nuyoka
Oh Wow!
I Worked at H&H in the summer of 2003 when they were on the corner of 259th street in Riverdale.
I had nothing to do with his pics but I do agree with him, they were very sloppy so I’m not surprised they messed up on delivering the goods.
Do they deserve to pay the ridiculousness amount in question and entertain his loony recreation of wedding 2.0 ?
Absolutely not.
But this comment does make me wonder:
“As an attorney, I can tell you this story is skewed. This lawsuit was probably filed with multiple causes of action including breach of contract & tort. The issue is a question of damages: are your wedding photos worth only the $4100 paid, or should you get consequential damages (ie, compensation for all the harm caused by the negligent act). Its a 1st year law school exercise in Remedies class–see “the case of the hairy hand.” Having the wedding physically recreated is obviously not going to happen, but the issue is how to compensate for the inexcusable failure to capture a priceless moment? If you are happily married, wouldnt your wedding photos be one thing you would run into your burning home to save? in other words, are they worth only $4100? If you have a pet you adopted at the shelter for $15 and someone negligently kills it, does he only have to pay you $15? Should you get more? Why?”
-James
CA.I would have just fired my lawyer already, the lawyers fees are more than what its being asked for already.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=59503071 Matt Skalski
F that guy, for real… I hate shooting weddings too, and if anyone ever pulls that on me I’m giving up the hobby… Permanently
http://kenntam.com Kenn Tam
Ya man, I miss home. :P
http://kenntam.com Kenn Tam
I hate everything I’m bad at. If I was good at shooting weddings, I’m sure I would love them. :P
http://kenntam.com Kenn Tam
Wow! And that water sits in the pipes so it usually comes out black. Man this is a great comment cause it’s a good thing for wedding shooters to keep in mind.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Dagályos-Morrogh/1675347343 Dagályos Morrogh
Strange, but semms nobody mention One really important thing! It might be that I’m too idealist, but I always tell my wedding couples to “don’t forget, that these pictures are only memories, it IS NOT the marriage IT IS NOT the happyness itself”. So I think everybody has to shame himself making more fuss about the circumstanes than the actually Love and Marriage and so on
http://twitter.com/casephoto Laurian Ene
So am I the only one that thinks that although the case is ridiculous, having it heard and judged on is not?
What is really ridiculous is the fact that they need to have that expensive lawyer to defend themselves even in such a ridiculous case. This sort of case shouldn’t even need a lawyer in my opinion unless there are unknown facts to us that would explain why he wouldn’t sue for the last 7 years.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Jakub-Cuba-Skorupa/595361278 Jakub Cuba Skorupa
http://www.aol.com/2011/11/03/todd-remis-sues-h-h-photographers_n_1076286.html
http://www.facebook.com/randyrichards01 Randy Richards
“An abuse of the legal system” is quite right. I hope I never have to encounter a client like that.
http://www.patrickhallphotography.com Patrick Hall
it’s funny when people say they are “bad” at them. Does that mean they are bad at photography in general? Weddings to me are 50% photo journalism or sports shooting and 50% lighting portraits. Doesn’t seem that tough to nail half of it if you aren’t a pro wedding photographer
http://profiles.google.com/mi1stormilst Garrett Graham
I have shot one wedding and participated in a few others and I do find them challenging. I don’t think photographers charge enough for weddings most of the time. The other problem is you might find your self competing with Tom, the guy who just bought a XSI package at Best Buy this weekend and told your potential client he can do the whole thing for $100.00. It is hard to do weddings and I totally respect those who do it and do it well.
http://www.patrickhallphotography.com Patrick Hall
what does “capturing a priceless moment” mean though? Should that moment be a snapshot or should it be a work of art? No one knows how good or bad the photos were but geez a memory is a memory. I feel like what we do as wedding photographers is glamorize the moment so much that we skew the memory in the first place. Most of the moments we capture in a well crafted image never looked nearly as glamorous in real time or from the eyes of those who experienced the moment.
If the photography is only worth <$10,000 then why are we charging so little?
http://kenntam.com Kenn Tam
I like being the boss and at a wedding, you’re not. Im bad at not being the boss and not being able to do things my way. :P
http://kenntam.com Kenn Tam
I agree. Lee and Patrick are a couple of guys who do it well and they do it with a smile. They always look like they are having so much fun at weddings.
http://twitter.com/Jwainesworth Jayge Dreier
I also hate photographing weddings. I hate what wedding photographers have turned the whole industry into. Now every bride and groom expect me to “take photos at a park, or an urban building” or someplace similar between the wedding and reception. Why would you want to go out of your way to take photos at some abandoned building or in some park in the middle of the afternoon? Only cause everyone expects to now. Screw that, just let me capture your REAL wedding day. Not some contrived memory that might look cool on a photographers blog.
I also like having weekends off :)
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=736075568 Cj Lucero
What’s lame is that he opened the door for other sue happy people that will make our lives a living hell whether he wins or not? Unfortunately there are those types out there that will always try and find a loophole. I don’t mind helping a buddy out and being a second shooter but I am definitely rethinking being the main in the whole wedding photography thing and for now and just sticking with bands and models. The last thing I want is to get sued over not shooting the grooms brother because he was at the bar getting his drink on early. Yea no thanks.
http://www.facebook.com/bterlegard Björn Terlegård
I love shooting weddings! Theres so much going on and you make tons of new friends every time. I will be in charge and decide where and what to shoot. Complete freedom and perfect if you are creative and like to make things up as you go along. I think talking to your couple before the wedding about what kind of photography you do is key. If they dont like your style they shouldnt hire you. There, wedding photographers out there, be encouraged ^^
http://www.facebook.com/marky360 Marko Ditkun
I shoot weddings because I like the money.
Its the photographers fault for not having a contract with terms that cover his ass
Lane Shurtleff
This case has been so overly exploited on the internet. Everyone needs to get the facts from both sides and not make judgements. Remis tried to correct the failure on H&H Studios part, but was completely ignored.
I used to shoot weddings years ago, this is why I don’t waste my time any more.
http://profiles.google.com/simon.lynchsae Simon Lynch
this analogy isn’t valid.
Wedding photography seems to me like school. I can do a whole bunch of differential equations at home and find the answers no problem. for some reason, when I sit down in from of the exams the teacher ALWAYS throw a curve ball (polite way to say “shit he didn’t cover during class”).
I CAN shoot sports, I CAN shoot portraits, but I hate the hole idea of running around to not miss anything. I like to be on my own pace… Doesn’t means I’m a bad photographers (which I aint a pro either…not by a long shot) or that I suck at maths either…
http://www.facebook.com/people/Maurio-Crawford/1053216789 Maurio Crawford
The law is LEGAL, not LOGICAL. Here’s the remedy. Legal Insurance!!! It wouldn’t have cost this photographer nearly as much if he had a “LegalShield” membership. I can help him & anyone else. Here’s my site to learn more.
https://www.prepaidlegal.com/MS/Multisite?site=hub&assoc=mauriocrawford
http://www.facebook.com/people/Maurio-Crawford/1053216789 Maurio Crawford
I’m a photographer also. Nothing to fear! I do weddings, but if I ever ran into this problem I have a team of attorneys ready to handle it for me.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Roger-Schooneveld/1669328899 Roger Schooneveld
he only missed 15 minutes so the photographer should only reimburse those 15 minutes.
http://www.facebook.com/shannon.wimberly1 Shannon Wimberly
thats what insurance is for….. I am insured for a million dollars…..
http://www.facebook.com/samuel.joubert Samuel Joubert
Hahaha I hated weddings at first as well! The more you shoot them, the more you are prepared and you actually start to appreciate it… It is always the same thing! Turns out I am now shooting some in France every year :)
http://twitter.com/carverphoto Chuck Carver
I agree with all of you who have said that this is an abuse of the legal system. The judge should have thrown it out, since Remis never paid the full balance of the money due to H&H. It would be one thing to restage a couple of dances at the reception, but the whole thing, never.
The bigger question is why? They are divorced now, who would want to go through all of that with someone that they have divorced?
Does Remis need the money that badly? Why doesn’t his daddy just give it to him, rather than saddling someone within his firm to spend the time on this?
It’s a wonder that Mr. and Mrs. Remis are no longer.
I’ve shot over 3K weddings and choose to not do them any more. This is one of the reasons, life is to short for stuff like this.
http://www.facebook.com/henryorth77 Henry Orth
Well – Lee and Patrick, I’m with you guys. I happen to love weddings! I love the risk, the adrenaline rush and the creative challenge in making the photographic memories better than the actual event but not equal to the love and dreams that are the hope of almost every couple that marries.
I value marriage, friendship, children and friends – doing this I get the privilege of documenting the things I value the most through imagery and art that reflects the hopes of the event and not just the events itself!
It’s not for everyone – but I love it! As for the crazy guy suing – that sucks!!! I carry a two million dollar policy with a one million dollar limit per event. Up to four are covered per event and includes other items such as rented equipment (with limits), hired autos, non-owned autos. Also covers $30,000 worth of personal equipment damage or theft ($500 deductible).
Henry Orth
http://www.orthphotograpahy.com
p.s.
Just checked with my insurance and it DOES NOT cover errors and omissions – oh s#i$ so I will be looking to get a new policy or add to this one!!! I also carry pre-paid legal (ARAG) and will check with them to see if they cover me on this?!?
http://www.facebook.com/henryorth77 Henry Orth
ARAG does not cover this either - damn!!!
Matthew Wagg
Never trust a man with micro small lips.
Anonymous
I’m surprised that there wasn’t some sort of clause in the contract for this. Something along the lines of a refund of fees for any technical or data loss problem. It also doesn’t say what the photographer was doing to miss the time. Was it a tech issue? Staff meals? Maybe hired up to a certain time that ended prior to the end of the wedding? But I suppose this is an unforeseen event for the photographer.
J Esser
@they cover me on this?!? = SOL. Creative process is not insurable. Defining parameters of obligations would cover you contractually but has to be very specific. In respect to the “last 15 minutes”, when is that in a wedding? At 2 or 3 in the morning when the bride and groom have finally left? Determine start and finish times and allow an agreed window of delay (helpful if you have a couple of gig’s lined up in the same day) and the primary events and specific people that the client expects to be recorded.
Anonymous
I had a nasty situation happen recently: through my own error I lost the last 20 mins of the wedding which unfortunately included the cake cutting and toss. The bride got about 900 beautiful photos for me but she went ballistic and started threatening emotional damage etc. I could see where that was heading. She wanted 100% of the fee back “or else”.
Fortunately I have a lawyer and insurance so I countered 50% and settled. Not fun.

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