[Discussion] Yes, I think Hipstamatic and Instagram are Bullshit but then again… I’m a photographer.

Ok, sure there are some guys like Damon Winter, David Guttenfelder, Teru Kuwayama and Balazs Gardi who have succesfully capitalized off of the novelty of iPhone filters like Hipstamatic and Instagram and produced some compelling works. But I still maintain that the use of iPhone filters, for anything other than fun/novelty shooting, have very little to do with real photography. It’s not the use of an iPhone that I find “cheap” (I think they are brilliant) but the use of cookie cutter filters in place of creativity and light comprehension. I think Sam Biddle over at Gizmodo said it best with:

“Reminder: Photo Apps Don’t Make You a Photographer
I love fun fake photo filters just like everyone else. Instagram is my favorite way of seeing what my friends are in the midst of digesting. But let’s never mistake “my dog looks like the 60s” for photography.
As Endless Origami points out, taking Hipstamtic pictures of plants doesn’t make you a nature photographer any more than playing Angry Birds makes you an ornithologist.”

habs [Discussion] Yes, I think Hipstamatic and Instagram are Bullshit but then again... Im a photographer.

via [EndlessOrigami] [YLovePhoto] [Gizmodo] [PetaPixel]

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November 11, 2011

Kenn Tam

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http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=506432237 Corey Melton
uhhh, is this really a discussion? Does anyone on this planet say they are a photographer based solely on the fact that they take pictures with their iPhone?
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=506432237 Corey Melton
uhhh, is this really a discussion? Does anyone on this planet say they are a photographer based solely on the fact that they take pictures with their iPhone?
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=506432237 Corey Melton
uhhh, is this really a discussion? Does anyone on this planet say they are a photographer based solely on the fact that they take pictures with their iPhone?
Mbutu Namubu
Digital is an acoustic space medium so it will always be converging with other acoustic space mediums. This is what people are referring to when they talk about “convergence” in digital imaging. Convergence is the collapsing of sequences and the merging of acoustic space mediums. (Still-photo cameras merge with video-cameras and cel-phones etc) Don’t get confused and think that an acoustic space medium has to be audio, it’s a reference to something different and anyone that is interested should research and refrain from writing a bunch of stupid comments trying to argue about it.
The bottom line is that an “app” is a collapse of a sequence and is the same as convergence. For example, there might have been a time in the past when a 50mm 1.2 lens was necessary to achieve a certain visual effect for a photograph. But, in an acoustic space medium, the lens itself simply becomes a useless step in a sequence that digital seeks to eliminate. An app or similar software solution is a way of eliminating the lens from the sequence necessary to create a visual effect. Of course, the visual result from a collapse of sequence is never exactly as good as the original. In other words, faking the look of a 50mm 1.2 lens in software will never be quite as using the real lens. But that doesn’t matter, because the majority of people that will use the software will never have owned or had any experience with the real lens so they won’t know there is any difference.
Be warned: Digital is going to keep collapsing sequences and will never stop. The craft of photography is going to keep getting simplified until everything is done with an app or software equivalent. Convergence and the elimination of sequence is the nature of an acoustic space medium and anybody that doesn’t like it has no choice but to get used to it. There are a lot of people that like the idea of convergence when it means that they can shoot stills and videos. But they don’t seem to understand that is only one small part of what convergence is all about. The apps that come along and make it easy for anybody to imitate an visual effect with software rather than hardware are part of convergence too.
Mbutu Namubu
Digital is an acoustic space medium so it will always be converging with other acoustic space mediums. This is what people are referring to when they talk about “convergence” in digital imaging. Convergence is the collapsing of sequences and the merging of acoustic space mediums. (Still-photo cameras merge with video-cameras and cel-phones etc) Don’t get confused and think that an acoustic space medium has to be audio, it’s a reference to something different and anyone that is interested should research and refrain from writing a bunch of stupid comments trying to argue about it.
The bottom line is that an “app” is a collapse of a sequence and is the same as convergence. For example, there might have been a time in the past when a 50mm 1.2 lens was necessary to achieve a certain visual effect for a photograph. But, in an acoustic space medium, the lens itself simply becomes a useless step in a sequence that digital seeks to eliminate. An app or similar software solution is a way of eliminating the lens from the sequence necessary to create a visual effect. Of course, the visual result from a collapse of sequence is never exactly as good as the original. In other words, faking the look of a 50mm 1.2 lens in software will never be quite as using the real lens. But that doesn’t matter, because the majority of people that will use the software will never have owned or had any experience with the real lens so they won’t know there is any difference.
Be warned: Digital is going to keep collapsing sequences and will never stop. The craft of photography is going to keep getting simplified until everything is done with an app or software equivalent. Convergence and the elimination of sequence is the nature of an acoustic space medium and anybody that doesn’t like it has no choice but to get used to it. There are a lot of people that like the idea of convergence when it means that they can shoot stills and videos. But they don’t seem to understand that is only one small part of what convergence is all about. The apps that come along and make it easy for anybody to imitate an visual effect with software rather than hardware are part of convergence too.
Mbutu Namubu
Digital is an acoustic space medium so it will always be converging with other acoustic space mediums. This is what people are referring to when they talk about “convergence” in digital imaging. Convergence is the collapsing of sequences and the merging of acoustic space mediums. (Still-photo cameras merge with video-cameras and cel-phones etc) Don’t get confused and think that an acoustic space medium has to be audio, it’s a reference to something different and anyone that is interested should research and refrain from writing a bunch of stupid comments trying to argue about it.
The bottom line is that an “app” is a collapse of a sequence and is the same as convergence. For example, there might have been a time in the past when a 50mm 1.2 lens was necessary to achieve a certain visual effect for a photograph. But, in an acoustic space medium, the lens itself simply becomes a useless step in a sequence that digital seeks to eliminate. An app or similar software solution is a way of eliminating the lens from the sequence necessary to create a visual effect. Of course, the visual result from a collapse of sequence is never exactly as good as the original. In other words, faking the look of a 50mm 1.2 lens in software will never be quite as using the real lens. But that doesn’t matter, because the majority of people that will use the software will never have owned or had any experience with the real lens so they won’t know there is any difference.
Be warned: Digital is going to keep collapsing sequences and will never stop. The craft of photography is going to keep getting simplified until everything is done with an app or software equivalent. Convergence and the elimination of sequence is the nature of an acoustic space medium and anybody that doesn’t like it has no choice but to get used to it. There are a lot of people that like the idea of convergence when it means that they can shoot stills and videos. But they don’t seem to understand that is only one small part of what convergence is all about. The apps that come along and make it easy for anybody to imitate an visual effect with software rather than hardware are part of convergence too.
http://www.facebook.com/kai.plews Kai Plews
So normally I’m all for anything that gets people interested in photography, but these apps are just another symptom of the toy camera problem. You can get a visually interesting picture out of some pretty crappy shots. A whole generation of photographers are getting by on the novelty of the lomo look. I think the cameras and apps are neat but 40 bucks on a holga doesn’t buy you photo craft the same way a gigabuck dslr doesn’t. Its like going from playing guitar hero to playing a real guitar, the motions are similar but don’t really translate. Call me a snob but there’s no replacement for actual knowledge and skill that’s what sets us apart from the hipsters.
http://www.facebook.com/kai.plews Kai Plews
So normally I’m all for anything that gets people interested in photography, but these apps are just another symptom of the toy camera problem. You can get a visually interesting picture out of some pretty crappy shots. A whole generation of photographers are getting by on the novelty of the lomo look. I think the cameras and apps are neat but 40 bucks on a holga doesn’t buy you photo craft the same way a gigabuck dslr doesn’t. Its like going from playing guitar hero to playing a real guitar, the motions are similar but don’t really translate. Call me a snob but there’s no replacement for actual knowledge and skill that’s what sets us apart from the hipsters.
http://www.facebook.com/kai.plews Kai Plews
So normally I’m all for anything that gets people interested in photography, but these apps are just another symptom of the toy camera problem. You can get a visually interesting picture out of some pretty crappy shots. A whole generation of photographers are getting by on the novelty of the lomo look. I think the cameras and apps are neat but 40 bucks on a holga doesn’t buy you photo craft the same way a gigabuck dslr doesn’t. Its like going from playing guitar hero to playing a real guitar, the motions are similar but don’t really translate. Call me a snob but there’s no replacement for actual knowledge and skill that’s what sets us apart from the hipsters.
http://twitter.com/i_am_marksalmon mark salmon
I think these apps are great fun and photography is supposed to be exactly that, fun!
No more no less….just fun.
If a person ‘thinks’ they’re a photographer because they use photo filter apps then leave to their own deluded little world.
Stop worrying or complaining about them, go out, snap away and have fun!
http://twitter.com/i_am_marksalmon mark salmon
I think these apps are great fun and photography is supposed to be exactly that, fun!
No more no less….just fun.
If a person ‘thinks’ they’re a photographer because they use photo filter apps then leave to their own deluded little world.
Stop worrying or complaining about them, go out, snap away and have fun!
http://twitter.com/i_am_marksalmon mark salmon
I think these apps are great fun and photography is supposed to be exactly that, fun!
No more no less….just fun.
If a person ‘thinks’ they’re a photographer because they use photo filter apps then leave to their own deluded little world.
Stop worrying or complaining about them, go out, snap away and have fun!
Chris Yee
I use silver efex pro, I’m having a hard time seeing how it is all that different…
Chris Yee
I use silver efex pro, I’m having a hard time seeing how it is all that different…
Chris Yee
I use silver efex pro, I’m having a hard time seeing how it is all that different…
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KGIHBUQPQNYO4DHTY233WCSDYQ Jacques
Who cares?
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KGIHBUQPQNYO4DHTY233WCSDYQ Jacques
Who cares?
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KGIHBUQPQNYO4DHTY233WCSDYQ Jacques
Who cares?
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1464534615 Eric DiFebbo
I “think” this topic is “over thinking”… Bottom line is… no matter what camera, lighting, filters, etc… it’s all fun. It shouldn’t matter what is used to make a picture. Yes I understand the feeling of accomplishment in using traditional methods in photography… but seriously guys… anything we do should be fun or there is no point. I sure as hell think that folks lugging 4×5 equipment all around a city back in the day would sure love to hold an iphone and snap away!
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1464534615 Eric DiFebbo
I “think” this topic is “over thinking”… Bottom line is… no matter what camera, lighting, filters, etc… it’s all fun. It shouldn’t matter what is used to make a picture. Yes I understand the feeling of accomplishment in using traditional methods in photography… but seriously guys… anything we do should be fun or there is no point. I sure as hell think that folks lugging 4×5 equipment all around a city back in the day would sure love to hold an iphone and snap away!
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1464534615 Eric DiFebbo
I “think” this topic is “over thinking”… Bottom line is… no matter what camera, lighting, filters, etc… it’s all fun. It shouldn’t matter what is used to make a picture. Yes I understand the feeling of accomplishment in using traditional methods in photography… but seriously guys… anything we do should be fun or there is no point. I sure as hell think that folks lugging 4×5 equipment all around a city back in the day would sure love to hold an iphone and snap away!
brittanny taylor
I had a guy ask me if I would send him a copy of Photoshop because he never bothered to edit his photos before and he wanted to start. I met the guy earlier that night while I was shooting a band. First off I was like “no” but curiosity took over me and I was like “what camera do you use?”. He responded with “oh, I just use my cell phone”… I then recalled seeing him on his flip phone from the early 2000s he was on five minutes earlier. I immediately walked away.
brittanny taylor
I had a guy ask me if I would send him a copy of Photoshop because he never bothered to edit his photos before and he wanted to start. I met the guy earlier that night while I was shooting a band. First off I was like “no” but curiosity took over me and I was like “what camera do you use?”. He responded with “oh, I just use my cell phone”… I then recalled seeing him on his flip phone from the early 2000s he was on five minutes earlier. I immediately walked away.
brittanny taylor
I had a guy ask me if I would send him a copy of Photoshop because he never bothered to edit his photos before and he wanted to start. I met the guy earlier that night while I was shooting a band. First off I was like “no” but curiosity took over me and I was like “what camera do you use?”. He responded with “oh, I just use my cell phone”… I then recalled seeing him on his flip phone from the early 2000s he was on five minutes earlier. I immediately walked away.
Anonymous
Is it just I who thinks photogs hate on Hipstamatic because they feel threatened?
I would say that in a perfect world, everybody would have access to all necessary equipment (may it be f/1.2 lenses or Photoshop or whatever they prefere) and know how to use it.
So many photogs are elitists who think a cell phone camera and filters are a big no-no.
The same elitist who uses digital cameras, shoots tethered in the studio and edits in Lightroom and Photoshop..
If it’s all about making it harder to get the result, why don’t you shoot analog and edit by hand?Because it’s easier and goes so much faster with digital, am I right?
Why do people use hipstamatic?
Oh, because it’s easy and fast. Do you see the connection?
I’d love to live in a world where the best photographers where those who had the best artistic vision and made the best end result, regardless of how they do it. It’s so easy to think of yourself as an artist just because you have a few studio strobes and a DSLR.
If some guy with an iPhone and filters makes better pictures than you, maybe you should reconsider your career choice, as you’re obviously not up to par artistically despite all your gear and know-how.
Joey Wright
As a photographer, I’m going to say that arguing about what defines a photographer is a complete waste of time and energy. Any photographer who feels strongly against an iPhone app is probably in need of a hug.
Photography is a form of ART and ART is completely subjective. If you don’t like it, don’t look at it again. If some people are going around taking crappy pics with an iPhone and calling themselves photographers… who cares?! Frankly, I’ve already wasted too much time on the subject by typing these few sentences.
‘Real’ photographers tend to take themselves way too seriously and this post and its cartoon is a perfect example of that. We are very fortunate to have a career which offers so much without requiring 7 years of school. As long as no one is raining on your parade, don’t be so quick to rain on theirs.
Joey Wright
http://www.facebook.com/dave.lehl Dave Lehl
Why all the hate on Hipstamatic? It’s fun and harmless. It’s like saying “Puppies aren’t REAL dogs! Fuck puppies and everyone who owns one!”
Shouldn’t we all be funneling our anger towards HDR and selective coloring?
David Capino
Do we really care how images are created vs the final product? In terms of judging their ‘goodness’.
http://www.facebook.com/daniellisbona.photography Daniel Lisbona
Jeah,
you can get inspired by using Instagram and also share it to your fans, like i do ( @daniellisbona:disqus).
The Iphone Fashion Photoshoot is also a really cool thing.
But you are not a Photographer just because you shoot with your Iphone.
A costumer want to have Quality, and not a jpg shot by a iphone.
Damn I Love Fstoppers
Anonymous
Some snippets from the opening statement above, followed by a couple of questions.
“I still maintain that the use of iPhone filters, for anything other than
fun/novelty shooting, have very little to do with real photography.”
   — How would you describe “real photography”? (Last time people waded hip deep into that question was when digital began to eclipse film.)
You cite four photographers above, and say they have “succesfully capitalized off of the novelty of iPhone filters like Hipstamatic and Instagram and produced some compelling works.”
OK. But….
   — The images that they produced: Are they “real” photographs? Or not? “Compelling works” sounds like you’re really trying to avoid the word “photographs”.
   — Having published these “compelling works,” (again, are they photographs? Or not?) do you think the photographers have exhausted the “novelty of iPhone filters” and will no longer produce “works” with their iPhones?
   — Suppose, for a moment, that Balazs Gardi actually had some preconceived vision for the photos that appear at this link, http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/07/25/the_war_in_hipstamatic?page=full. But instead of an iPhone, he shot them with $6,000 worth of DSLR equipment, then spent 2 hours in Photoshop fiddling with layers and various PS tools get the identical images. Would those images qualify as “real photography”?
   — If a photographer screws a polarizer on an expensive DSLR lens to deliberately, and instantly, create a color-saturated image….. is that a “real photo” or “bullshit”?
   — Going back to your earlier post (http://fstoppers.com/news-a-cool-gift-for-creatives-35mm-hand-cranked-retro-video), can you please explain why spending $79 on Lomokino + more for film and developing is “fun” for “pro shooters” but that Hipstamatic and Instagram are “bullshit” that produce eye rolls for you?
Mike M
Agreed Kenn, sadly, so many visitors to Fstoppers’ only reprieve is likely these same apps.
It’s nice taking a break and shooting with a cruddy camera, but tbh, if the only reason your shots look amazing is because of the app, maybe it’s time to start shooting with a real camera.
To all the people saying how great these filters are… get an amazing image on one of the early blackberry cameras, a quicktake, or one of the original mavicas, and then I’ll admit you’re super skilled ;P.
Mike M
Corey, I don’t really think that’s what Kenn meant…
He quoted someone else… but his actual statements seemed significantly different than your summary of his point…
“some guys… have succesfully capitalized off of the novelty of iPhone filters
like Hipstamatic and Instagram and produced some compelling works…. I
still maintain that the use of iPhone filters, for anything other than
fun/novelty shooting, have very little to do with real photography.”
So, “Does anyone on this planet say they are a photographer based solely on the fact that they take pictures with their iphone?”
He also goes on to say “It’s not the use of an iPhone that I find “cheap”… but the use of cookie cutter filters in place of creativity and light comprehension.”
Which seems to be a fairly intellectual and apt point about the cookie cutter-like nature of these filters.
Can you create great images with this camera? Of course. Would that alone be getting you any variety of paid jobs… I’d doubt it.
It was Sam Biddle who said “Photo Apps Don’t Make You a Photographer”, but that’s just a general saying like “having an SLR doesn’t make you a photographer”, he’s not claiming boatloads of people think that way…
Although to be blatantly honest, if you think there is *no one at all* who thinks that way, you’re probably not looking at the entire situation Corey ;P.
Mike M
He could be taking amazing images, even with that terrible imaging device… did you even give it a look before you walked away?
Mike M
It’s like saying “Puppies aren’t REAL dogs!
Actually, it’s more like saying having your pets groomed is not real pet ownership, but vicarious living through your animals.
Your analogy is more akin to, Point and Shoots aren’t real cameras. Or perhaps even Film SLRs don’t count, because they came first, yet were necessary for us to have DSLR technology today.
Mike M
Tman:
It seems that Kenn is talking more intentionally about the “weekend shooters” also known as the “this is a flower/chair/out of focus face, and now I’ve added a filter so it’s art”. The “black and white will make it look artistic” crowd. It seems you are taking his post more literal than he meant it.
“But I still maintain that the use of iPhone filters… have very little to do with real
photography. It’s not the use of an iPhone that I find “cheap” (I think
they are brilliant) but the use of cookie cutter filters
****in place of creativity and light comprehension****
Wouldn’t that be great if someday, any average Joe could pick up a camera, and every single calculation.. capture moment, lighting, exposure, depth of field, was automatically calculated to capture the perfect image with the camera, and suddenly no more creativity was needed?
#Can’twaitforendofartisticfreedom
http://www.facebook.com/werner.rolli Werner Rolli
Don’t get too excited about this. If you do have an eye for composition, a feeling for light und knowledge of dof, shutter speed and what ever … nobody cares what device you are using to get the pic. An iphone will be no thread to say an architectural photographer and filters wear themselves out over time. I agree with Kenn though, that too many people think they can shoot weddings and portraits with a cheap body and a kit lens. If you want to be a pro you have to learn more than the basics.
http://twitter.com/gamergod Paul Spenard
The same thing can be said about Garageband and other music apps – do musicians cringe when people create music works using apps and not the traditional? I love the apps – instagram, picas, toonpaint, be funky, hipstamatic, hdr+ and a slew of others. They can really take someone to a creative level when taking them to the limit. Creativity is more than just being professional and having high end gear. Kudos to anyone that can take whatever at hand and make a creative beautiful picture. I think that’s the point people are missing – these apps allow one to express creativity on a smartphone. One will not see the cover of a magazine shot using a smartphone app and the photographer getting paid for it… This whole instragram controversy is much like someone who takes rudimentary items and creates art. I have seen artists take $5 worth of household items and make great art – does this mean they are not an artist? I am not saying apps on a smartphone makes one a professional photographer – neither does buying a pro camera and saying you are. No different than a guy spending $5000 on a high end guitar and amp/sound system and calling themselves a musician. Just because one can play a guitar does not make one a musician
Pinhole photographers don’t get this negative attention as well as lomo or other creative people. I know a guy who shoots amazing pics on a d90 using einsteins and plm’s. Its not all about your gear or your profession when out comes to creativity.
I thinks some photographers get too sensitive and insecure when they see something that infringes on their domain… I welcome it for anything that brings more people into photography and leads them to higher levels and getting into the art seriously is a good thing. We professionals know what is what – so I leave it at that and try not to get bent out of shape over a smartphone pic. It is just that – a smartphone pic and leave it at that.
http://www.facebook.com/angel.oviedo.f Angel Oviedo
Using loops, effects presets and put them together to make a song makes someone a musician? Could be, but someone made that loops and effects, not the musician itself. It could be a good song of course. I think is the same when using a “point-shoot-choose preset” camera. They can be called photographers, but no Pro photographers. At the end, we are free to do whatever we want, some people will like it or not. And yes, I know about some people that says that they are photogs just using iphone and friends.
Nicolas Dumont
A photographer (from Greek) photos, meaning “light”, and graphos, meaning “written”, is a person who takes photographs.
I also happen to be a professional photographer and don’t give a rats a.. what camera I use, as long as I’m happy and my clients are happy.
Move along!
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_BVESJ3PPFW3KUUCFNMZBLXHP5A Hum
Stick your professional photographs up your bum. If you have a camera and your taking a photo. You must be a photographer!!
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=608997553 James Morrone
pho·tog·ra·pher noun fə-ˈtä-grə-fər
Definition of PHOTOGRAPHER: one who practices photography; especially : one who makes a business of taking photographsThis is the whole point. The rest is elitist nonsense.

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