I've been shooting local bands at restaurants and bars and I'm looking for advice on how to move up to the next level. Like everyone else, I learn something new every time I shoot (technical bits, interacting with the band and the crowd/patrons), but don't know what to do next other than keep shooting and building my portfolio.
So, I'm looking for some specific advice on how best to move forward to eventually shoot some more well-known artists at larger venues.
1. Social Media: Use or don't use? How? Which?
2. Technical: Kit (shooting FF, just bought 70-200 f/2.8 but haven't shot a show with it yet)
3. Technical: Shooting
4. Technical: Editing (I've uploaded a few images for evaluation, if you please)
5. Making contact with artists's managers/venue managers?
Thanks to everyone for helping me learn by posting such incredible photos to FStoppers. I appreciate any and all advice.
I hope you get some good feedback. I’m also curious about this. I find live music interesting to shoot, but I’m not looking to expand beyond my local music scene.
its tough, and i'll be honest, dont expect a lot of pay. The best advice i have is approach not only bands, but band promoters and the middle men.. also a good way is to approach the venues. If you have a venue that is close that gets good performers make contacts there. Know you'll probably have to shoot some other stuff too. (Sesame Street on Ice.. Monster Truck Rallies.. along with good bands)
Another apporach is build relationships with local newspapers, publications. they can get you media credentials to get in and take photos. Typically just the 1st 3 songs.. but its more than you can do now. Again, dont expect much money, but it will grant you access.
have a good contract.. READ their contracts.. bands and venues will try to rob you blind and take advantage of you. it takes time.. you'll get a lot more "no's" than "yes's" but that makes the "yes's" even more gratifying.
www.darrellmillerphotography.com
Thanks for the reply. I currently have a day job but looking forward to retirement "work". As long as the pay is fair market value, I'd be happy to do it since I don't expect it to put food on the table.
I recently reached out via email to management for a nationally known (small venue, niche) band and didn't even get a reply. A "no" would have been somehow more gratifying.
I've thought about the newspaper/publication approach but even in my mid-sized city the bylines for locally shot photos at the major newspaper are limited to just a couple of names. Even the local "scene" publications print few photos and publish online photos gleaned from social media posts.
I took a look at your website. Nice work! (Fiddle player with the baby on her back!)
https://tdphotography.smugmug.com
Thanks again,
Tim
I'm lucky enough to live about an hour away from New Orleans, which lives and breathes music, burlesque, and quirky performances. Find what is unique in your area. what makes it special. then make it your own.
You dont need a lot of equipment. Sure a kick ass high end camera will take sharper pics in low light.. but you can do a lot with a little. If you're in the stage pit, or at the corner of the stage (typically where you are) you can do ALOT with a 50mm F1.8. its easy to get caught up in chasing better equipment.
You wont start making money..you have to have a portfolio and relationships in place to start making money. Watch your local and regional calendars.. Find music festivals, other kinds of festivals that will have live music. find the smaller venues that get local bands, and smaller venues that get some bigger names. once you have a decent portfolio in place. email or call these venues and ask to talk to the manager. Ask that manager if they have a staff photographer. New bars and venues open up all the time.. jump on the new places.. they need marketing material and photos. If you know the social media side of things even better. You cant just offer to take photos.. whats in it for the band or venue? What are you going to offer them?
This kinda work isnt going to fall in your lap. YOU have to make it happen. You gotta do more than take photos.. Find a story to tell.. tell that story. Find a local musican.. take more than just photos of them on stage.. whats their life like? what are practices like? whats is the prepwork and the teardown after a show like? market/sell that story to a local magazine or paper. Photos are all over instagram and social media.. but stories.. people want to know more.. look at "people of NY" imagine doing something like that with musicans or performers.. you have to stand out.. tell the story of a bar.. or a bar owner..
If you're in a college town there will be a TON of liberal arts majors in the music scene with a camera. they will be able to shoot as good as you.. you gotta do more..
Once you do things like that.. and have something to show.. show it to larger, bigger bands and clients.. approach bigger promoters.. but you still gotta tell a story.. and give the musican or venue something they want.. and that'll be more than just a photo of a band on stage these days.
Be creative in how you find people.. gotta have a music store in town.. where do musicians go to buy guitar strings? drum sticks? (other than amazon) go befriend that dude.. he'll know all the bands in town.. and they'll listen to him. He'll know who needs promo photos.. and who is up and coming.
www.darrellmillerphotography.com
Wow ... this makes total sense. Thanks for sharing!
I joined this group just to comment here. Follow Darrell's advice, it's right on. I'm a dinosaur as far as photographers go but having photographed the likes of Billy Joel, Super Tramp, Arlo Guthrie, Doc Severinsen, Maria Muldauer, many others, and other performance arts too back in the 70s and 80s, I know this is a tough field and there is little money to be made. Keep your day job. But it can be fun and you can learn a lot- about photography (study Darrell's photos), about people, and about life.
thank you so much for the kind words and complements.
Wow! So much great insight, I don't know where to reply or really what to say other than HUGE THANKS to both Darrell and Gary. It's really the kind of insight I was seeking.
I love the idea about telling a story. Despite being an engineer by trade, I can usually still string words together in such a way as to be literate and interesting.
The comments about social media are also intriguing and they pretty well line up with my experience thus far.
I'm going to take some time to digest this, do a little research and develop an actionable plan. You've already sparked a few ideas...
Again, thank you both.
Tim
i'm a software engineer by day.. and shoot nights and weekends. there are lots of us nerds roaming with cameras out there.
Since i'm on a roll here.. and like to talk.. :)
Social Media..
Instagram: i post two pics a day on instagram.. i get some likes.. and have some followers.. but its never brought me any business.. NO ONE has EVER messaged me off of instagram and offered to pay me. but.. i do send a link to it when i'm emailing a band or promoter about shooting their show.
Facebook: i have joined some local groups in my area where local musicians and performers talk and discuss things. I contribute to the conversations.. and i'm an active part of that community. THAT has brought me the most business. That has also kept me connected to the performers and venues in my area.
My Kit: Sony A7rIII and Sony A7rIV, lenses depends on the venue and what i'm shooting.. but these days i shoot mostly a 24-70mm if i'm close to the stage and a 70-200mm if i'm put with the sound guy or in the back. A few of the venues i've been shooting for 5+ years give me a little more freedom and i'll set up my 2nd camera back center of the stage pointing out at the crowd. i have a wireless remote trigger for that camera. Took a while to get them to trust me to do it.. pictures come out awesome.
Shooting/Settings: Again, depends on a lot.. indoors.. typically try to shoot at around ISO 1600 1/350th of a sec or faster, F4.. with the spotlights and stage lights its doable.. i'll go up to ISO 6400 no problem.. depends on the band or performer on how slow of a shutter i'll go.. if its just a girl sitting on a stool playing the guitar, 1/60th of a sec is okay.. if its someone on a trapeze..that wont work.. i will say blur isnt always bad.. showing movement can come out really cool sometimes (Especially with drummers)
Editing: The more i shoot, the less i edit.. i used to go deep into photoshop and do some really really deep stuff. only me and pther photographers noticed or cared. these days most i jsut edit in lightroom (white balance, crop, etc) and called it a day. every once in a while i'll remove some distractions in the background.
Making contact with artists, venues, and other options:
Treat each one differently:
- artists: "Hi, i'm a local photographer and i love your work. I see you are playing at X music hall <insert date> I'd love to not only capture the performance but tell more of the story of who you are as a band/musician. I'd love to shadow you for your time here. I'd love to capture and tell the story of you in our town. If you have time i'll be happy to shoot some promotional shots and band photos for you. I'd love to work with you and really capture who you are through my photos.
Here is a link to my music portfolio.
<insert music portfolio>
I look forward to hearing from you
<insert name>
- venue: "hi, i'm a local photographer and i am really love and impressed with the new music venue you just opened. I would love to work with you and your venue to tell the story of music and performances that you bring in. If you have any time this week i'd love to meet with you to talk about the opportunity of us working together. Here is a link to my portfolio.
I look forward to hearing from you
<insert name>
www.darrellmillerphotography.com
your photos:
your photos are just fine. They are the traditional music shots. (good ones) a few suggestions:
- becareful with backgrounds.. not only watch the band but whats in the background. it sucks to come home and find you have this amazing shot and something stupid in the background
- musicians/singers are going to get 1000 shots of them screaming into a mike. try to do something different ( i dont know what that it)
- dont forget about the audience. if you can capture a shot of the band AND the audience it tells more of a story.. (for you, the band, and a publication that might want to use it)
- everyone shoots the lead singer and the guitarist.. dont forget about the other bandmembers.. (drummers are hard, they are usually in the back in a cluttered place)
get creative, have fun, tell a story.
Love that one with the performer reaching out (and the security guard making sure it's all good).
In terms of social media I think it depends on what the music scene is like in your area and what genres/type of artists you're working with (or would like to work with).
Instagram to me is the most valuable as I work with a lot of young bands who are adverse to Facebook, it allows me to share my work and reach the audiences of the artists and promo companies I work with.
That being said I rarely get any work directly from Instagram and every time I have has been with an artist I've worked with previously already.
It sounds kind of obvious, but the best way to make contact with artists and venues is to attend as many shows as you can, interact with their social medias and photographers who work with them already. It can never hurt to just ask; if there's a gig you want to shoot, email the promoter and ask for a press pass.
Hope you've found this helpful!
Helpful, yes! Though I do find it interesting that Instagram is most valuable to you, yet you rarely get direct work because of it. How then do the artists and promoters use your Instagram that makes it valuable to you?
I suppose I meant in comparison to other social medias, where it is much harder to build relationships with bands, promoters and venues.
It's valuable to me because I can reach a wider audiences (that of the client I work with) and potentially make clients out of them. I've never had this experience with Facebook, where only family and friends see my posts.
But this is just my experience, others may do really well on Facebook and find a lot clients that way.
It seemed exciting in the beginning but to be honest I was happier when I shot clubs with bad light and local musicians who appreciated my work and posted it all over the internet. If it's a hobby fine.
Tim, I'm a bit late to the conversation, but here's advice from someone currently making a living off nothing but Music Photography. First, BE A GOOD PERSON, and I cannot stress this enough. Be yourself, everybody else is taken in this industry. Second, prepare to make working hard your new hobby, because that's all you're going to be doing for the next couple of years.
Now that I have all of the sappy stuff out of the way, here are your technical answers.
1. Yes, absolutely, without a doubt. I rely solely on Instagram to grow my brand and get new clients. The more work you put on there, the better your outcome for following. It's a also an ego tool. Musicians want to see that you have people actively supporting your work, so their's will be supported that way as well. Learn everything you can about that app. (Here's me telling you to follow me @nickbarrettmedia , and see what I'm doing :p )
2, 3, 4. Shoot with what makes you happy. Shoot how it makes you happy. Edit how it makes you happy. Again, you should have your own distinct personality within your photos. That way people automatically knew you took it, therefore giving you a fanbase. Don't let ANYBODY tell you how to shoot, you are not them.
5. Again, this goes back to being a good person, however, my networking strategy goes deeper than this. I look at everyone I work with on a personal level. I ask myself "how's their life? are they paying their bills? are they emotionally happy right now? etc) You figure out what exactly is going on in their life, and what they're currently doing in the music industry, and you find how your photography could be a benefit to their lives and career. Again, this is a bit philosophical, but you get the idea of always being a benefit in someones life. That's how you get remembered. -
- On a physical level, find people walking in and out of backstage areas of the venue. Scope out who's doing it the most, and go talk to them after their hands aren't tied during the show. Be nice, be honest, and tell them you're intentions. If they reject any offers, DONT take it personally, it's only business.
Now, your photos are good for the size of shows you're shooting. Here's a few ways to get bigger gigs:
1. Know who to contact. These are your managers, publicists, label execs, etc. Find the emails of these people. Most of the time there's a contact page for an artists website. There are also lots of contacts in the Facebook about section of their page. Make the email short and sweet (music industry folk are always in a rush). Tell them who you are, what you want, and provide the work to prove your worth. You can find YouTube videos about this that go into much bigger detail.
2. Get on with a publication. I am a contributor of 2 publications currently. Find the genres of music you want to shoot, get on with a publication that covers the genre. From there, the editors of the publication will do all of your credentialing.
The only reason I typed out this long ass response was because I saw the quality of your work, and your honest intentions of the post. Notice how when you do these things, you get what you want in return (which is honest advice)
If you really love music, the work will technically be hard, but you will have a blast doing it. I've been shooting nothing but music for a year now, and I've just started getting comfortable with pay and connections, but I've had so much fun the entire way, I dont seem to let that bother me much. You can do the same with the right mentality.
Anyways, good luck, and I hope this helped.
You absolutely can make money within your local scene and it's a lot easier to do, than chasing bigger bands.
Have you asked yourself why you want to work with bigger artists? What are your intentions?
Speaking from own experience. I mean I'd love to work with bigger bands, but at this time I don't consider this as a possibility even. Way too much of competition out there. My current attitude for now is to be a big fish in a small pond ahaha. And work the way up.
Now I mostly work with local bands, it's 90% of my photo jobs. I still don't make a living with photography, bc I'm relatively new, but there is potential and it grows. Took about 3-4 month to get paid live shows requests. But my initial intention was and still is creating "more interesting", clean promo materials/styled shoots (not dudes in the woods snap shots) for my local scene. Everyone deserves to look like a rockstar, so why not? Plus I have background in fashion/beauty and thought it would be cool to translate it into band photography ))) So I started to go to small shows, taking live photos, making new friends and connections and started to get hired for performance photos by local bands. All of the paid gigs are word of mouth. I've shot some bigger well known acts, but that was only for publications and I really doubt the artist even saw or care about those. Eventually I started to get hired for styled promos, there is a long way to go, but it finally started to get going. My live photos are ok (based on my opinion, although people love them and I consistently used to shoot same bands over and over again before covid happened), but the real thing for me is styled shoots. When people love their promo materials so much and they never thought they could look like that ever, that makes me so happy seriously )) If I wouldn't start doing live music photos I wouldn't get promo gigs, so I kinda stuck between two.
Imo social media doesn't really matter, at the end of the day all of the live photos look almost the same, but it's a nice way to have your work in one place.
Your shots are solid for the scale of shows you are shooting and working with your local scene easily can become your retirement job.
P.S. My work is here in case you curious https://www.marinaboichuk.com/