Hi everyone!
When I do a photoshoot for someone, I usually take 500ish photos, we select 20ish that are good (I do some basic camera raw edits and send them in jpeg) and then only a handful that are very good (I do the full edit with frequency separation etc. and send in jpeg too).
Once the job is done and I've sent all the jpegs to the client, I usually keep the 20 raw files and the handful of .tiff files. The problem is that those .tiff files are over 1gb, sometimes 2gb! (vs 25/30mb for the raw files). I'm planning to go from 24MP to 61MP so this will get even worse.
I wonder what workflow people are using here. Do you keep those heavy .tiff files? Just keep the raws and edited jpegs?
Thanks
Hi,
I mostly photograph artworks for artists to document their work and for their websites. I'm also making prints for them to sell so I do keep the raws, psd's and jpg's. Some also ask for tif's so I end up with a lot of data but after a while when clients are happy with the result I just keep the psd and a small jpg.
I also keep a cloud backup in case something happens to my computer.
Though my needs differ, when I save TIFFs I save as ZIP compression and discard layers. This brings the file size way down and less then the original RAW file. Now if you need to save all those layers, then that is what needs to be done of course.
When I am done with my RAWs I convert them to DNG files and that saves further space. This can be done right in lightroom [ Library > Convert Photo to DNG... ]
When done I typically have the Raw (or converted DNG) and the fully edited TIFF file (using ZIP compression). Now if I want to upload to social media or someone is looking for an image I just Export right on the spot; which I then select the file type and size.
This leaves me with two images per edited photo but of high quality (The TIFF and the RAW/DNG).. Both of which, when added together, is roughly 50MB. (25MP camera).
If working for a client and I'm all done and they have the images they are happy with - I then take the entire work folder and Send to Compressed Folder by Right Clicking... Name it properly then send it over to my backup drive. Moving one giant folder at once is faster then sending dozens (or hundreds) of small files.
Just what I do... nothing more..
Hi Joe. interesting. DNG holds all the details like RAW? Will it be read /treated like RAW in all software?
Curious for your decision of storing in DNG and not RAW.
And about compressions. I experienced that image file compressions to zip does not save much space. I work on PS only now. so its all layered PSD and processed images in JPEG. Never tried compressing PSD to see if it saves space. But JPEG zipped is of same size.
Am also wondering about your workflow involving Tiff. if you can share your insight about the need of TIFF output for processed images and not JPEG.
Thanks.
Happy to...
Here is a screenshot of a set of files. The NEF is my Nikon's Raw file, then the DNG... Then the TIFF (No compression) and TIFF (ZIP compression).
DNGs are RAW files, just a different standard; they will edit the same in Lightroom (or other software that can read DNGs, which is all of them at this point?). The conversion brought the file size down from 48MB to 21MB.
My reasoning is saving space and not loosing any file quality, and I can run checks on the integrity of the files thru Lightroom (it can just scan all the files I want and check their integrity).
I was off on my TIFF numbers, it's been a while since I've looked at the numbers straight up; so I apologize for that. There is still a meaningful difference between the Uncompressed and ZIP Compression; bringing the file from 129MB down to 96MB. This conversion is still Lossless (no loss of data via compression).
I do export as JPEG when there is no other choice; but JPEG is a compression in it's own right before adding further compressing (say thru ZIP, and this is why there isn't a size difference when doing so, as it is already compressed).
For social media I save out as TIFF 1MP and 3MP files sizes. Files uploaded to Facebook are just "cleaner" looking after uploading; and FB recommends TIFFs as well. Fstoppers here dose not support TIFFs so I just do either JPEGs or PNGs depending on my mood.
There are also times I will save out a finished file I know I will no longer touch as 8-bit (down from 16) to save further room. Social Media will crunch it down to 8-bit anyway, so I might as well do it on my end. This also hold true if I am going to upload an image to a company to get printed; as they mainly seem to want JPEGs at 8-bit as well.
I guess I could go back and re-compress my old TIFFs to High Quality JPEGs to save a bunch of space. Chances are if I go back far enough I'd probably want to re-edit the RAWs anyway.... But saving just over 50% drive space going from NEF to DNG seems to be worth it; at least for me. Meaning on 100GB of RAWs I could get that down to roughly 50GB? or 1TB down to 500GB? I'll take that for cold-storage files..
(Note: I know there is one file with a different time. I was looking for files to compare without going back into Lightroom and I snatched a file off my camera's memory card that was of the same scene but just taken a few minutes later; I just happened to snatch one that I had deleted locally, so the times are off).
Hi Joe. Thanks for sharing. Learnt about your confidence for DNG. the same is adobe proprietary format so will work with LR and PS. I still need to understand if DNG is acceptable in capture one, luminar independent or other. Besides, am skeptical if future softwares would want to recognise the same or not for commercial and tactical reasons.
TIFF: in my impression Tiffs are for printing reasons mainly. Instagram does not accept tiff. (correct me !!). so in busy life I do not have time for many file outputs. but your insight is interesting and will surely check about tiff zip compression. I do not save in tiff. after giving requested I delete it. cos I save mother PSD.
PSD: You have not mentioned about it. I assume you mainly work in LR perhaps. Since I shifted to PS only, each PSD of mine is 1gb plus. and now this is nightmare for me. cos each of my project has 20 to 30 final selection. for that back end there are about 50 -60 sets. Set = 5 bracketed images of each focus. about 4 average focus so about 30 exposures (including grey card). since I opt for adobe RGB each file size is 48 mb in sony full frame. To write this when I checked my last commercial project, its 130gb.
I have a bigger trouble than S Lake.
Yeah it is important to check if the software you work in fully supports DNGs or not. I use Lightroom for my catalogue and basic adjustments; then bring the image into Photoshop for the majority of the work. While in PS I can bring the image into Luminar/Aurora or any of the Topaz software without an issue (or jump right from Lightroom into those packages directly). I just checked and Luminar can not read DNG files directly but I can Start in Lightroom and "Edit in... Luminar". Topaz on the other hand can read DNGs and can also save as DNGs.
In Lightroom and once leaving Lightroom, files are no longer RAW and depend on the "External Settings" setting. It's why the above works, Luminar can't read DNGs, but going from Lightroom to Luminar converts the file (in my case) to a TIFF, which Luminar can read. This just happens seamlessly in the background.
So the long and short, as long as I stay in Lightroom and Photoshop I shouldn't have an issue; as long as other software packages continue to support their plug-ins or filters for the adobe platform.
I typically almost never save in PSD format unless there is something I know I have to go back and edit from time to time like working on a layer, font or text or I'm working on a GIF animation. PSDs can get huge! I think I once hit the hard cap of 4GB though that may have raised since.
I have not tested this but is a TIFF where you retain the layers upon saving (using zip compression)... is that smaller then a PSD file?
Dealing with such amount of files per project is quite the linguistics. A 2.5in 250GB SSD is roughly $30 these days... I'd setup a "hot swapable" external drive bay and swap out per project; then just budget the $30 into the project costs. Then just label the whole drive for that project.
I've been in and out of the Graphics field for over two decades now; and file types, organization, and the linguistics there of, is always the most complicated side of any project; specially if working in teams. What makes it tricky is that there are good practices and poor practices but there typically isn't a right or wrong way. This is the area where this field could use the most innovation I feel and some standardization.
Hi Joe and S Lake. thanks for the interactions. This led to ask few questions individually. same would lead to clarity sooner.
I keep all my RAWs and separate into Picks vs. Rejects folders. All are archived/backed up to my local RAID and cloud storage systems. When I have time, I sometimes go back through the Rejects folders and always find one or two more Picks. I just recently went back to a shoot from 2016 and found a few Picks that I normally overlooked in culling.