Unfortunate things happen with computers all the time. I understand that. But when a recommended Dell update bricks a Dell computer, I expect Dell to fix it.
My first "real" computer was a Dell desktop purchased in 1998 and since then I've been a fan. For over two decades I have purchased almost exclusively Dell and Alienware computers. In the last 20 years I've purchased over 20 Dell computers as a student, professional photographer, and then the owner of Fstoppers. I have never received a free computer, advertising money, or a review unit from Dell, but I'm sure you've seen countless posts and videos recommending Dell products. I'm a legitimate fan of Dell.
No computer lasts forever and many of my Dell computers have broken in some way or another over their life. Sometimes they break within the warranty window and Dell will pay to repair them. Sometimes they break outside of the warranty window and I have been forced to pay to repair them. That's only fair.
But this situation is different. This time my computer is out of warranty, but Dell's own software broke the computer, at least that is my take on the situation. Let me explain.
Patrick and I recently moved to Puerto Rico and we decided to bring our two Dell XPS 15 laptops and my older Alienware Aurora desktop. We specifically chose to bring this computer with us because it is significantly smaller and easier to pack than all of the other Alienware Area 51 desktops we own.
When we got here the computer was working fine but I decided to do a fresh install of Windows 10. After the update, I went to Dell's website to download all of the recommended drivers. One of the recommended installs was a bios update. This bios update froze the computer during install and when I restarted the computer, it wouldn't boot. The "update" had corrupted the software that runs on the motherboard itself.
I researched this problem and found other people with the exact same problem and to fix the issue, Dell had to replace their motherboards. I was annoyed at the inconvenience but was confident Dell would do the same for me. I knew my desktop was out of warranty but this was obviously Dell's fault and they had always treated me fairly in the past.
After being transferred to the "out of warranty" department, I was informed that I would have to pay to fix the computer. They sent me a few options via email and the "onsite" option is "$149 + $171" and I'm not sure what that includes. Is that the cost for a replacement motherboard and a tech to install it? The email isn't clear. It's not a ton of money, but it's the principal of the situation. This feels like some sort of ransomware; Dell recommends software that breaks your computer until you agree to pay them to fix what they broke.
At the same time, I do see things from Dell's perspective as well. Computers break for all kinds of reasons and they certainly can't afford to fix every computer they've ever made for free. Plus, some people are claiming that this is 100% my fault because "bios updates are risky" and I should have known what could happen. Others are saying that maybe the computer wasn't actually frozen when I restarted and if I had just waited a bit longer this wouldn't be an issue. Obviously, I don't agree with these arguments but I'm sure Dell feels the same way.
What do you think I should do? Should I just pay Dell to fix the computer and forget about all of this? Should I continue to pressure Dell to fix my computer for free? Or, should I pull all of the valuable components out of this computer and put them in an OEM motherboard and case?
A quick Googling tends to lean in favor of BIOS updates being risky, especially on hardware with only one available BIOS (some hardware comes with a BIOS switch and has two available BIOS's for overclocking, different settings and added safety in situations such as your own). You are obviously not computer illiterate, and by the goddess the situation does indeed suck, but if Dell has all the proper warnings in writing on their website or in manuals about the risks that come along with updating the BIOS, then seems like you might be out a few hundred buckeroo's.
Hera give you strength in these trying times. WW out!
I'd be all over them to get it fixed. At their cost of course.
Like you say, you've even used their updates, not like you've started fiddling with it and hacking BIOS.
Maybe now you've stuck it on the 'tube, they'll pull a finger out. Fingers crossed!
If it was a fresh install, then just ditch Dell and install a new motherboard yourself.
And sweep the problem under ther rug? It's obviously a problem that has to be fixed on their end. The easiest thing is to get a new motherboard and install it yourself. This is how free market works: users buy a product that is supposed to work, it doesn't work, and the company has to take a responsibility for that.
Well considering that an article was written about it, I wouldn't say that the problem was swept under the rug. Beyond raising awareness, you have to react to the reality of the situation which is that Dell wants money to fix the issue and the computer is out of warranty.
Pretty much any BIOS update has a disclaimer that waives responsibility, especially if you reset the computer before the update was completed which the instructions explicitly state not to do. So you can either cry on the phone to customer service. Take legal action which will probably not succeed, or move on with your life. What is your time worth to you?
I say writing a public article to blast the company and then moving on is best.
That would invalidate his Windows license on top of being a major pain.
I'm not really sure what other realistic option he has unless he wants to sit around with a bricked computer while he prays that Dell caves to social pressure.
The only thing that needs to be done is - unsolder the bios chip - put it into a programmer, reprogram the chip install a socket on board - and put the bios chip into that socket. I'm thinking about Louis Rossmann to help you out. (you can find him on youtube) with his mac-repair-video's (but he does more than only iphones and mac). It's sad Dell didn't put 2 bioses on the alienware series - they're more than expensive enough!
LOL! Louis Rossmann would probably make a video complaining about how you sodomized the motherboard or something...
Pretty much every OEM is too incompetent to be allowed to write software. Best sticking to building your own machines. Also, you should only download drivers from their website as a last resort. Windows Update will sort you out with everything you need, with more safety and less bloatware.
I am a photographer, not a computer technician. When I install an update, I expect it to work properly without me needing to know how to rebuild ANYTHING in the software or hardware. If their update is risky, they should rework their update until it can be installed safely.
I would make a great deal of noise about Dell and their inadequacies.
I would have to disagree with the statement "Unfortunate things happen with computers all the time." I've been on Macs since 1992 and only had to take one in for repair. In fact, ALL of my older Macs from the 1990s and 2000s still work! They just don't have the ability to run today's latest software. I'm using all of my Macs bought from 2011 to today. Also, not a single virus throughout the years...even WITHOUT ever using anti-virus software.
Some people like PCs and that is totally fine. However, I don't mind paying more for a Mac and being able to get my work done, day after day, year after year. I'm sure there are people who have had Mac problems, but just want to share my experience.
All of my friends use macs and they also break all the time. I’m glad you’ve had a great experience but I’ve heard horror stories with them as well. Check out pye Jirsa’s MacBook Pro experience
I'm typing this on a 7-8 years old PC I built myself and it never broke. Ever. Never buy a PC by a OEM in my book. Laptops are another thing as you said in the video.
Good point. I also have several Mac-fans with issues, hardware and software alike. Do not always believe the hype! Especially in terms of hardware repairs, Macs are often not viable to any repairs at all. Too many components are not serviceable.
I totally get it. I'm sure I have been fortunate. Good luck solving your problem!
Please I had more hardware problems with Macs since 2016 I switched. They have been going down hill in quality.
Apple's not had a very good track record of late. Their last two iPhone updates have killed both cellular and Wifi for thousands of people. The Macbook Pro keyboards break if a single piece of dust gets under them.
The one advantage over the likes of Dell and HP that Apple had is full control over hardware. A good Windows alternative are the Surface products. My Surface Pro 3 from 5 years ago is still running as strong ahd fast as day 1.
I've been using Windows based PC's since '95 and never had a single issue. Not one. Since you've had 1 issue with your Mac's, that must mean that Windows PC's are superior.
So says the n=1 theory, anyway.
Yes, Macs never break, which is why they sell Apple Care and have repair services at their stores... -_- Anything device is susceptible to failure. Having a logo of a half eaten apple on it doesn't exclude it.
The problem with mac is you can't do any repairs on them yourself. With dell if they really wanted to they could pull the motherboard and replace it quickly.
I've found Macs to be much more stable and less buggy than their PC equivalents. I don't think it's a Dell vs Apple thing, more of a Nix vs Windows thing.
I guess there is always an inherent risk with any firmware update regardless of what type of hardware it is (computer, router, drone). At the firmware level, its not really a mac or pc thing so much I don't think. You're down to components that may or may not have been manufactured by the stated OEM.
Did you try BIOS Recovery? Dell has instructions on their site here: https://www.dell.com/support/article/us/en/19/sln300716/bios-recovery-op...
Yes. Didn’t work
Dell should fix it. We shouldn't have to second guess manufacturer-recommended updates. Sadly that does seem increasingly to be the case though.
Here is Dell's dilemma; as you've found out, the bios update is the most touchy thing to do on any PC. You are rewriting code to the BIOS chip on the motherboard, the slightest thing goes wrong and it's toast. This can include a power surge or voltage variance and you are not on the most reliable electric grid.
The reason for no pay though, for any user, Dell has no idea if you did the upgrade properly or not and they can't take your word for it, otherwise there would 100% payout because 100% would claim it was done properly. So that's why all the pre-install warnings and the refusal to pay. BTW, a BIOS update is optional, the thing will generally run fine with even the oldest version.
You said you waited, but it was sitting there doing nothing so you rebooted... cue up needle scratching on record. You may have not waited long enough. That what it does during a BIOS update, it does nothing (some versions will have an install progress bar on the screen). When it's done, most Dells will reboot on their own.
The motherboard is not that hard to replace and you may want to try a used one off of Ebay, although the price they quoted you would seem reasonable if the 149 was the MB only. I would think "onsite" means the $171 is for labor to have it installed it at a Dell authorized repair facility in PR.
Unfortunately Richard, since the advent of Spectre and Meltdown vulnerabilities the BIOS upgrade is necessary in order to patch the CPU and BIOS code to mitigate these vulnerabilities. That means Dell, HP, Lenovo and every other PC manufacturer assumes a certain amount of responsibility in making sure that their BIOS upgrade does not brick a machine.
I have patched the BIOS and firmware of computers from a PC to a Sun/Oracle SPARC machine. It isn't that hard to do and in many cases the application walks you through the process including the reboot. If it hangs, there definitely is a problem.
If this has happened once I would say "my bad", when it happens to multiple users there is a problem. And Dell should be all over this!!! That's the reason why I use HP over Dell. While Dell servers work, my one experience with Dell Federal gave me every reason never to use or recommend their gear again.
You're preaching to the choir. All manufacturers test their updates prior to release. Again, it's the procedure that goes south, not the update software itself. Where's the documentation that Dells are all of a sudden bricking on BIOS update? He says he found other instances... well, yeah, there is a percentage of updates that brick the BIOS chip DUE TO OPERATOR ERROR. Notice he didn't say how many; if it was out of the normal because of Dell, it would be all over the internet.
I have bought hundreds of Dell boxes and servers, all used local government surplus. The upgrade cycle replacement was more Dells. If your Dell story was correct, they would be out of business.
I have doing IT work for 20 years Richard and I have seen more than my share of vendor screw-ups from lousy code to poor service and repairs. Did Dell test their BIOS code against every stepping of Intel CPU? Probably not. There is testing and there is testing and my money is on the update being broke.
Yes, they would have tested against every possible CPU. You're conflating software on a hard drive with a highly specific firmware. The stuff on the disc can explode via whatever screw up. The BIOS update has to be absolutely, positively, perfect. The difference is the latter will brick the hardware.
Your money is on a bad update? Then where are the tens of thousands of angry users with bricked hardware? Where are the lawyers with the class action suit? Where is The Register, PC Mag , PC World, etc, etc, etc, with the news story?
Another thing, I spent five years as an External Beta Tester to Sun Microsystems (2003-2008) working on the Solaris 10 operating system. I found out that while there were a number of things that either did not work or were broke on Solaris, Sun fixed what they thought were major issues. I know years later bugs I found and reported were still broke. Software and hardware vendors have a funny way of determining what is important.
I'm pretty sure that responsibility ends when the user reboots the device mid-update.
You know as well as I do Michael that is a cop-out that the vendor can use to avoid responsibility for lousy code. Alienware is supposed to be Dell's top of the line next to their business models. No matter how you slice it Dell is going to take a hit for this.
Slightly off topic but my HP Omen with a Spectre/Meltdown BIOS ipgrade works just fine.
Of course it's a cop-out. As for whether Dell takes a hit from this, I highly doubt that it will take much of a hit since the vast majority of users never update anything anyway and, as a result, won't run into this issue.
For home users yes I agree, but dell has penetrated multiple markets including working professionals. If this gets enough publicity it will show up on their radar.
Spectre and Meltdown are still a thing and neither is going away soon. If there is a problem with BIOS updates, Dell needs to get it under control.
Actually, it's the working professionals in corporate environments that tend to be LEAST likely to update anything. Some high end firms, yes. The vast majority of workplaces? Not a chance. Do you have any idea how many computers are still running XP and Windows 7 without any updates to even those OS's? You think these places even know about Spectre and Meltdown, much less have an IT department that's going to run around updating the BIOS of all of the computers?
Please... You're lucky if you can find someone to correctly install a printer driver in most work environments. If they even have one, "the IT guy" in most workplaces is some college kid who got the job because he built a gaming computer once.
Oh, now it's *if* ?
Let me repeat: Then where are the tens of thousands of angry users with bricked hardware? Where are the lawyers with the class action suit? Where is The Register, PC Mag , PC World, etc, etc, etc, with the news story?
How about I just ignore you. You can downvote my posts as well as everyone else's.
https://www.dell.com/community/Desktops-General-Read-Only/Downloaded-Del...
https://www.dell.com/community/Desktops-General-Read-Only/computer-dead-...
https://www.dell.com/community/Alienware-Desktops/BIOS-upgrade-gone-bad/...
https://www.dell.com/community/SupportAssist/Dell-Support-Assist-BIOS-Up...
You think Dell has a problem?
These experiences may vary: Contary to your case, we have had very sour encounters with HP, their broken upgrades, dying and non-durable hardware, and we do not touch HP to this day. They went through a crisis, split of a company, and that's a fact. Even the IT department of my company dropped them out completely in favor of Lenovo.
Thus lets give Lee recommendations regarding his decision "yield to Dell and pay, or not," without this "switch the hardware maker" syndrome.
What I recommend is to try to get something good out of it in the long run: Take a motherboard running with UEFI, drop the BIOS. BIOS is being soon to completely phased out. This way, his ordeal will turn into a 'forced and out of schedule' hardware upgrade. In a long run something positive.
Thomas, the problem lies in the upgrade and whether or not it upgraded CPU code as well as the BIOS. If the CPU is toast as well, then Lee is looking for a motherboard and a CPU.
It if were me, it would all depend on how confident I was that I followed the update process to the letter. Anytime a firmware update is interrupted prematurely there is a real risk of bricking the device. Fortunately, it's never happened to me but I'll admit that this has left me a little complacent about always giving my full attention to the process. If I had any doubts about my own culpability I would just pay. The fee is surprisingly reasonable assuming the work is done correctly.
On the other hand, if you are confident that you did everything correctly and allowed the process to complete—and particularly if the problem seems widespread—then I'd pressure Dell to step up and do the right thing.
BIOS is the hardware verification and pre-boot check of the computer system originally IBM only until it got cloned. Stands for Basic Input Output System. It's the main reasons you still see a 2032 battery on motherboards to ensure that the BIOS settings aren't lost. However since the switch to UEFI (which is becoming like a mini-OS to manage your hardware) it's getting less common.
Both BIOS and UEFI do similar things, it preps the system hardware to hand over to the OS Kernel. You can also get mini ROMs but I won't confuse the issue.
Apple hardware uses a custom version of UEFI for their hardware.
Using a Mac, you won't have to deal with BIOS.... it's only on a PC. Even though Mac uses a similar boot firmware, it's their firmware. The beauty of Mac is Apple designs its software and hardware to work together with none of the sucky issues like you get with Windows installs crashing your Dell.
If you did an update that involved a BIOS update on a Mac and restarted the computer mid update you're gonna most likely brick your Mac too.
My motherboard has a feature that if it can't load the bios 5 times in a row (start up computer.. wait... Restart) it will actually go back to the original bios.
No, this is for every computer system in the world.
You have RAM, drives, System ports ( such as USB, Thunderbolt), system configuration (such as enabling/disabling h/w from the OS, RAM Speeds etc) and myriads of other combinations. BIOS enumerates all this and does system level configuration before handing off to the OS. IBM was the first to use BIOS, but it was reversed engineered in the mid-80s giving rise to the IBM PC clones which we all use today.
UEFI is similar to BIOS but it's far more capable to handle modern systems. Apple uses a custom variant of this standard, but it's updates are often hidden to users as part of security updates. A good example was the Thunderbolt vulnerability (Thunderstrike) that Apple patched a few years back. Apple tends to obscure UEFI by using the nomenclature 'firmware'. More recently they patched the UEFI to counter the Meltdown/Spectre vulnerability.
Even most mobile phones will have a 'BIOS' firmware which does similar tasks.
No, a Mac has a BIOS just like a PC does.
I do BIOS updates daily on most Enterprise hardware with no issues, been doing that for several years. I know HP has a safety fall back (on top of the pre-boot verification process) but even if the machine was under Warranty doing BIOS updates is at the users own risk and there is usually legal text to that effect on the OEMs website. Many modern systems also have the 'dual' BIOS to allow recovery from a failed update (or overclocking) fault and you get this on the HP Z series of hardware and many gaming rigs also have this feature.
The concern I have, and realistically this is likely, there's a underlying fault with the motherboard or hardware that caused the BIOS to fail. That's the only time I've seen a OEM BIOS update fail. Hence it's best to bite the bullet and the board replaced. Oh and I've seen a BIOS update take over 30min on a 3 year old system. No idea why, it just sat there then rebooted and all was well.
I used to work for Dell/HP as field services, so unless you get an extended warranty you're likely to be out of luck getting one for free especially if they have a use at your own risk disclaimer on their site. Also not sure when you'd need to download the drivers from Dell, unless there's some special ones that was missing as Windows 10 installs about 95% of drivers these days automatically with obscure chipset drivers and RAID/Enterprise hardware being the outliers. Also the drivers from MS is likely to be more up to date than Dells.
Honest question: Why buy a desktop and not build it yourself? I love Dell laptops, but desktop PC is always cheaper and more powerful to build one yourself...