It really doesn't matter what kind of photography you do if you get paid for your services I guarantee that at some point you will be faced with price objections from a client. If you haven't already you definitely should arm yourself with a few tactics for when the inevitable happens.
The guys over at The Futur are back once again with some more role playing exercises to help creative people while out in the field. This week they discuss the typical reactions you are likely to face from a client during price negotiations. The video features Chris Do who is an Emmy award winning designer, founder of brand strategy design consultancy Blind, Inc., and passionate advocate for freelancers getting paid fairly.
Even though the video uses graphic design as an example, these tips are more than transferable to all imaginable areas of the creative world. Do has some great answers to the typical responses you will likely face when talking figures to a client. Ever had someone ask you to work for half the going rate with a possible offer of more work later down the line? This video will show you how best to combat such ridiculous offers and get the rates you deserve each and every time.
I'd much rather have a reputation for being expensive than one for being cheap.
as long as you are getting work and not pricing yourself out.
Agreed. If no one is saying you're too expensive, you're not charging enough. A friend told me that he thought it was great when companies were agreeing to all of his terms, until he realized he wasn't really asking all that much. Once he started hearing 'no' for certain things, he knew he was right where he wanted to be.
Great story Michael, thanks for the share!
Totally agree Dusty, what ever price you set you will get rail-roaded into. Very hard to break out of it...
Thank you so much for this video!
That is totally what I run into. I'm a known photographer in my area in the North of Poland. I have my certain style.
When I tell people how much my price is, they tell me "Man, you are in Poland, not in Germany" -where I grew up-, "you need to adjust your prices. Why can I get one image for 100PLN, if I can get from another photographer 10
images for that price?!". Then my reply is usually:"if you get the same quality and style from that photographer. It sounds like a great deal. I would do that as well! But obviously you reached out to me, because you like my style."
But people here usually search for cheap solutions and don't know the difference (yet) between good marketing and images and bad ones.
It's the same in many places, Mattias, keep fighting the fight! We all deserve it...
As Red Adair once said (paraphrased)... 'If you think us professionals are expensive, just wait 'till you use an amateur'.
that's how it usually works, sadly...
Love this quote! people need to hear it more often!
Great quote
You start at $1000-$2000 and then drop to $500-750 without changing the scope. I think that is a mistake. During the pivot, you need to address WHY you think it's worth 4-10 times as much as the client. In their mind, the scope is smaller than yours, address that! Some of my biggest deals came about from these "gap" conversations. I will adjust the project cost down IF the client reduces scope. If they ask for 10 shots and I say $2000, then they respond that they thought $1000 I offer 5 shots (OR 5 setups and 10 shots) anything that gets them to consider the scope and the cost of that scope. In these conversations, I generally expose my planning process and often expose items and considerations that the client has overlooked. This level of detail often results in more work and getting paid what I think is fair.
Totally agree Matthew, if the price drops something has to come off the table, be it number of shots, retouch, duration of shoot etc...
Yes, best advice I got was to make my proposals "modular" so you never simply drop your price without the client giving up something - number of images, turnaround time, something. Otherwise, why weren't you less expensive in the first place?
Exactly Matt! modular all the way.
Just imagine if it happened in a restaurant, you'd be like if the price went down whats up with this meal?!
S P O T O N
such a great post. It's important in small markets for photographers not to charge a small fraction of what they're worth. I see $50 shoot posts all the time, potential clients refer to these exact people when asking about my prices. It ruins the market for the rest of us actually trying to make what we deserve.
If you are competing against these people, you are either going after the wrong prospects or you need to up your game. There's really no point in trying to compete against lowballers. If you find yourself in a lot of conversations where you feel you need to justify your price, something is wrong with the prospective client's perception of you. This is either a function of the clients to whom you are marketing, your body of work, who you are showing up as, or a combination of the three. Step back and take a look at the situation and try to identify which of the three is the culprit and then take action to fix it.
I hear you Gabrielle! a rising tide lifts all boats... 🌊⛵️⛵️
Thanks for sharing the video. I will definitely use these practices in the future when negotiating with clients either face-to-face, virtually, or over the phone. However I don't think this addresses some fundamental issues.
Issue 1: Digital Communication - A lot of the clients I deal with where I run into this problem communicate with me digitally. Typically through the email submission on my website. Once we get to the point in our email communication where the focus turns to price, if the price I suggest is too expensive to them they typically don't reply back. Is the problem here that I'm having the conversation about price over email? Should I suggest face-to-face?
Issue 2: Competition Undercut - There have been multiple occasions where I've been in conversation with fortune 500 companies about video projects. For example, a construction company's annual update meeting with their CEO and board members. The project manager overseeing the creation of the video went with a company who severely undercut my prices, so we never got to the point of this negotiation. They compared prices, said they would go in a different direction and the negotiation never happened.
Perhaps these are different topics, but I feel as though they relate.
Ok, this is just my take on things.
Issue 1: You really need to be negotiating in person or over the phone. This way you have the flexibility to react to the situation and if need be fight your corner. It's impossible to build rapport with someone via email, you need to be doing that stuff in person. I have been hired considerably more times after a face to face meeting than a cold email exchange. By making the effort to see them in person you are not only giving yourself an edge over all the people sending just emails but you are sending the message to the client you are making the effect. Also seeing them in person means you can get a better feeling for the business. Their website might say fortune 500 but does their offices?
Issue 2: If you know the market, the going rate, and you have illustrated to the client what value you would bring to the situation don't dramatically lower your rate. As mentioned above you need to take something off the table if need be. Just remember that no one wins a race to the bottom. If you cut your rates you'll get rail-roaded into that price and it's tricky to get out of it. Just imagine if Mcdonadals suddenly started selling the Big Mac at $30 each after it always being $5. How would the world react?
You're not always going to win every job you bid on, it's just part of the freelance life. Take it as a filtering process to filter out the bad clients you didn't want anyway...
Thanks for information Paul! I appreciate it!
You're very welcome, I think you'd enjoy some more of the videos on: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheSkoolRocks they are aimed at graphic designers but the lessons are transferable...
I am not a professional photographer by any means. I stumbled across this headline and felt the need to make a comment based on my experience with this subject. I puchased a nikon dslr to take photos of my kids because they were involved in so many activities and my pictures look very good. I took theater photos of my kids in theater and after a little trial and error with low light action photos, I was able to produce outstanding action photos. In fact, the school wanted me to take all of the theater photos but i have a career already and only pick up my camera for just my kids which is time consuming enough. Like all parents, I visited studios for my kids senior photos and was astonished at the prices. Don't get me wrong, I will pay for quality, but said quality needs to be better than the results I get with my own camera. Trying to find a studio to just take a simple senior photo without a vast array of packages was like pulling teeth, but I get upselling services. It just wasnt cost effective for me. I decided to just take my own photos and purchased a studio lighting kit and in the end, people thought they were professionally done. I am quite certain true professional studios have the software and education to make mine look amateur, but the 3 studios i visited locally sure didn't. The point i'm trying to make is, you can have a reputation of being high-end, but the product needs to reflect that also. Advances in technology for the home photographer enables them to take excellent photography so there needs to be a happy medium in what photography studios charge.
While your point is valid in this situation, you are removing the business elements that go into higher costs. You're able to create a product at home without any of the business risks involved. You don't have to consider overhead of rental cost of studio space, branding, insurance, accounting, etc. Most of the time the cost of overhead to run a business is factored into the price of the service/product.
I'm glad you are producing amazing work at home it can be very rewarding esp of loved ones.
Kit aside, the difference between a professional and an amateur is the amount of risk involved.
Would you let an amateur change the breaks of your wife's car? In the commercial world, clients want photographers who can hit it out of the park each and every time. A professional's wealth of experience means they can do this and as a result, they get paid more.
I wouldn't want to risk the pictures taken of my wedding, the vital surgery I may need, or the crucial maintenance on my car to an amateur.
Even if they can get *pretty* close to the same results *most* of the time...
Hi Paul,
sorry, but to compare car break repair with photography is dumb.
It's not dumb. I was illustrating the difference between an amateur and a professional and yes this works with photographers too.
Feel free to fill in the blanks it works with every profession.
I wouldn't RISK my important [blank] in the hands of an amateur [blank]...
TRUTH, what i have to deal with my graphic design clients almost every time
I think most creative industries have to deal with it sadly. If you are a graphic designer you'll love the youtube channel above. It's even more relevant to you...
I found the first response "If it worked out so well, then why are we talking??" a bit confrontational. I suppose it comes down to everyone's personality, and if they can gauge how a client might react to something like that. A more polite wording might be: "Was there anything about that last guy that made you realize you need to hire someone more skilled like myself?"
I hear you Scott, Chirs in the video is very confident and has the work to back it up. He can totally get away with it but I appreciate it might rub some clients up the wrong way.
I think I'd use the other phrase he says instead:
"...you and I are talking as you are looking for a better solution than you are already getting..."
Your phrase works great too because at the end of the question you are reinforcing your strengths without just saying "I'm amazing", great job!
Thanks for the response, and I get where you're coming from. There are some pros out there who can and do get away with being a bit abrasive because they're huge successes and they feel they owe nothing to anyone. Many of them have so much work that they don't care much about potentially rubbing someone the wrong way, especially lowball clients. Honestly, good for them!
Great video! Thanks for sharing. I'm making a huge life change this October (quitting my job of 10+ years, moving to Toronto, and becoming fully self employed...photography + consulting work). It's a scary but exciting time! I've been shooting semi-pro on and off for about 10 years and in the last year or so I have decided that this move is necessary if I ever want to do this full time. The area I struggle with the most is pricing, which I'm sure is a big struggling point for most creatives. I've heard the whole nine from clients in regards to my pricing, which in my mind were not that high (full day wedding with engagement session plus album for $3000, when I shot weddings). Does anyone have any suggestions on how to find a good starting point?
All the best on your big change! One piece of advice I always say to people going freelance is to make sure you have things like credit cards and mortgages before you make the switch.
Once you are self-employed it's super hard to get credit until you have good books for 5 years.
I can't give you actual figures as all industries and locations are different, I like to price for jobs based on the value they give to the client. Watch this video, again it's about graphic design but the lessons work for us photographers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKXZ7t_RiOE&feature=youtu.be
Also, take a look at this article I wrote about why KEEPING your day job (partially). Not for everyone but worth a quick read, the comments are full of great points about healthcare etc too.
https://fstoppers.com/business/why-having-regular-day-job-could-improve-...
All the best!
Thank you very much for all of the great info. I will be doing consulting for the industry I'm currently employed in, but I won't be able to keep my actual position as I will be moving 4 hours away. So I guess it's partially employed plus photography. I told myself I would regret not trying because it's what I love, even though it's a bit scary making the leap. I'm soaking up all the knowledge I can before I jump :) When I had a studio in my current town 5 years ago I struggled with breaking through that invisible barrier to clients who understand the investment in a photographer and was left constantly battling with the lowballers and undercutters, so much so that I took a break to re-evaluate. That love and passion still there, even more so now that I've figured out what I love shooting, so I have to try. Thank you so much again!