With the current state of the photography business flooded by part-time professionals, Ourspot (or something like it) was ultimately inevitable. The website, which launches in San Francisco today (New York and Los Angels coming soon), is an online marketplace where anyone can hire an amateur photographer for as little as free to as much as a few hundred bucks.
Photographers are able to upload a "portfolio" for potential "clients" to browse. Those "clients" can pay whatever they like. The site suggests $10 for "fun" shoots, $25 for a "standard" shoot and $100 or more for something "custom." Ourspot takes a 8%. The site's founder, Sam Yam (yes, his real name), has said he is not trying to "cannibalize the market" for higher-end jobs like weddings. Good luck with that, Sam Yam. My personal favorite detail the tagline on their front page, "Be a Photographer." It's now apparently that easy.
What do you think?
Hmm, will it cannibalize the pro's market? No, I don't think so. It may certainly be a starting for some careers and more faces will come up on stage. But serious agencies will continue to call the pro because what counts at the end is repetitive quality and that they can rely to get their expectation fullfilled.
I second that.
this seems somewhat like Model Mayhem to me but more for John and Jane's who want some photos. good place for those who can't afford high end portraits and good place to practice so many aspects of portrait photography for the serious beginners.
well enough compansy hire the cheapest they can get today.
the companys you speak about are not that many.
I agree. Cheapskate companies/people will always be cheapskates. You will never be able to convince them that what you have to offer is worth the extra money. It took me long time to understand that. I always thought that if I just "educated" clients they would understand the "real" value of my service.
The clients who will go to this website are not my clients.
I agree with you that this is most certainly not gonna affect the pro market. my wife hired a pro wedding photog in NJ for our wedding last Sept for about $3000 and we didn't even get 10 halfway decent pictures from him. She really regretted hiring him (A distant family friend) rather than one of my pro wedding photographer friends. I am pretty sure that in any next event shes gonna be damn sure that she hires the right photographer even if she has to spend a little extra.
DAMN YOU SAM YAM!!!
A photographer I am!!!
I cannot afford green eggs and ham!
At these wages, no one can!
Typo in your headline
Fixed. thanks.
And sorry, its been a long morning for us here :-)
there are proof readers in india that charge like $.01 per word...
They were all hired out by Sam Yam to be amateur photographers.
Epic comment is epic
This is awesome! I want to thank all the sites that told me I could be a professional photographer just by watching youtube videos and pressing the black & white button. I was on the fence about whether to be a professional photographer, or a professional Walmart employee. Being a professional photographer is so much more easier! Now I'm a professional photographer, with professional equipment, and professional lights, and professional pants. I'll be able to shoot tons of professional jobs now with my professional portfolio on this site and be more budget friendly to budget people looking for professionals (which I am) at a reasonable budget professional price budget professional reasonable thing.
hahahaha
Sam Yam's prices are too high. Most digital photography isn't even worth giving away for free.
For all practical purposes, the profession of commercial advertising photography died in the late 90s. My last catalog shoot was in 1998. From then on, I only made money on speculation by shooting content. That did alright until the housing market collapse in 2006. From then on, it only got worse every year.
Yes, there are some commercial photographers out there doing well. But they're working for corporations that have been bailed out by the Wall St bankers. It's only a matter of time until the money runs out and the corporations will all go belly up. Then, those last few commercial shooters will be collectively wondering if it's even worth paying the power bill at the studio anymore.
The wedding and portrait photographers that did will in the last decade were riding the housing bubble. Their clients had loads of extra cash to spend from the massive influx of credit. That bubble money is now gone, and most of the wedding/portrait photographers that depended on it will be gone soon too.
Am I worried about competition?...no, I'm a total elitist photo snob and am confident in my ability to outshoot any of these new DSLR freak wannabes. But I can't build a dependable business in an economic environment that isn't stable. Nobody can do that.
The sh*t's gonna hit the fan real soon. When that happens, all of the rats will jump ship.
But do the jobs come with free exposure and potential for future jobs? I didn't think so ;)
what a great idea.... please ruin the biz for all of us.
amateurs who shoot for 10$ what could be better..... LOL
I don't think pro photographers should be worried. I mean, Instgram basically made everyone a photographer already, so what's the harm in this site ;).
Definitely a good thing for the industry. If you're truly a good pro photographer, you won't have any trouble standing out from that. You're shooting for a different market, between people who want professional results and those who just want snapshots of themselves.
If anything, people using sites like these get used to pay for photos (even if just $10), and will then upgrade to more pro shooters when they truly need something nice.
Yes, it might hurt a certain category of "pro" shooters, who may not be able to up their game above amateur photographers. They may have to readjust their careers, or learn to be better quickly.
Every industry has always had those who will do low quality work for little or nothing. Building any business on price wars is always a lose/lose situation because somebody will always do it for less. This has just organized the Craigslist and Facebook wannabe's into one place. Those that will hire them would never have hired a pro photographer to begin with. If it wasn't this then they would have got their friend Bob from down the street who got a camera for Christmas, or Uncle Joey who has already been taking those creepy pictures of them since they were little.
Love it! Now I have a place to send people who don't want to pay my rate!
So I started the site to help all photographers, not just amateurs, but the media has pushed on that more strongly than anything else thus far (admittedly, the pricing structure doesn't help).I definitely thought of Ourspot as a tool for professionals, too, since effectively it's a marketing service where you can showcase your portfolio, which should make your photos stand out even more if they're professional caliber. You definitely aren't forced to sell anything or do any photoshoots on the site.
One thing that I intend to do to help foster a better professional community is to allow for photographers to submit their own prices for photoshoots that have been posted. That way it'll link back to your portfolio and posters can get a better idea what an actual photoshoot is worth -- going forward after that, I would then be able to put up "suggested" prices based on averages/medians for certain types of photoshoots.
Any and ALL feedback is definitely appreciated -- photographers should be shaping this product going forward -- please don't hesitate to email me at sam_at_ourspot.comThanks!
I don;t see how this is financially viable for the photographers or even for you? how did you create your business case / plan? Micropayments of 80 cents per transaction (looking at the bottom end) coupled with operating costs (bandwidth, financial transactions, website maintenance and development, ...) how is this going to be profitable? Obviously you are going to load the site up with advertising to help offset your business costs but that seems like a lot of effort for very little return.
For the "photographer" your pricing scheme is even worse! You are telling prospective clients what to expect to pay so you are setting expectations that can;t be met. How is a photographer supposed to shoot at 10$? It costs me more than that to go out of the house on a shoot just in gas and wear and tear on my car!
Try and think of it as being the same as World of Warcraft or some other simulated reality entertainment. It's a place where people can go and fantasize that they are something that they're not. It's a fun make-believe world of virtual reality entertainment. In that respect, it's not much different than the rest of the online photo community.
Did someone say World of Warcraft???
I am sorry all this does is continue to help devalue photography.
No.
Photographers and their images are subject to market forces like anything else. Sidewalk paintings on velvet can be had for $10, yet paintings from Masters continue to increase in value.
Pro photographers don't own photography, and they are not owed a wage. Pros need to respond to the changing market, and Sam Yam is an entrepreneur who is doing just that.
Sam, your site does not bother me, or is a bother for professional high end photography for that matter. Happy you found yourself a niche.
You lost me, tho, on the "I started the site to help all photographers, not just amateurs" and "Ourspot as a tool for professionals, too". No, you are not helping any pro and NO, Ourspot is not a pro showcase. Luckily we do have great showcase sites and resources available
Good luck man!
You want an idea? Here's an idea--take $10 and $20 photo shoots off the table. $100 should be the bare minimum entry point, and even that is low. Anything less than $100 is a nonstarter. If you can't afford $100, get a friend with a point and shoot camera.
Jaajajajajajajaja!
If any so-called pro photog is actually worried about people charging $50 for a session robbing him/her of potential customer and business, he/she needs to reassess his/her own work and reconsider the idea of being a so-called pro.
Exactly! Creativity and dedication is where success lies not at a price point.
The "I work so hard post processing" and other excuses are not viable if your work is not amazing. Maybe you could save some of those billable hours on photoshop, taking better photos and not firing on continuous mode like its a automatic rifle at target practice.I know good photographers and they are by no means worried.A lot of good photographers will be born out of this.
"You get what you pay for" in this low-ball market. If clients are
"price sensitive," they're going to be very demanding and nickel and
dime you as a photographer. Because the market is saturated, what's
the best way to make money? Let's make money from all those amateur
photographers who have cameras. Any photographers (amateur or pro) you
have to account your gear expenses, hard drive space, post processing
time, electricity, etc. Take all this into account and you're going to
charge $5, $10, $20??? Charging low amount is not a
sustainable business model in the long run. You are better off taking
photography business courses from PPA, WPPI or some of the established
photographers workshops who will show you how to properly price your work and not
"low-ball" yourself. This will eliminate the middleman. I highly recommend joining your local professional
photography groups as they have well known guest-speakers who speak
about the business aspect of photography.
The best way to lower industry pricing is by introducing a low price point.
Sam, your "median price" will be the balancing point of pricing elasticity. You'll be hard pressed to get above that price.
If creative fees run at $200, $300, $500. Most people will consider $300 reasonable and accept it (It being the middle price, not the highest or the lowest)
If they run at $10, $50, $75, $200. The $50-$75 photographers will get the gigs and if anyone else wants the work that's where they would have to price.
I didn't think anything could lowball Craigslist.
10$ for a shoot ... it costs me more than that to go out of the house to head to a shoot never mind make a profit. How can this POSSIBLY work?
10$ for a 1 hour shoot ... let;s say 3 hours work total.
10$ * 0.08 = 80 cents.
10 - .80 = 9.20$
9.20 / 3 = 3.06 an hour.
And we haven;t looked at costs for the shoot (travel, wear and tear, printing contracts and model releases ...) how can this possibly work? Unless this is 10$ sitting fee and then like 100$ for a 4X6?
You're only seeing things from your perspective. Not everyone shoots to make money, or even recoup costs. There are people who simply enjoy shooting and are willing to shell out money to do so. Shocking!
Some people pay big money to fly somewhere and play golf. You could make a case and show the math for how much that chump is losing.
So the $10 one of these photographers charges can cover the cost of parking, let's say, and they get a lovely afternoon shooting people. Otherwise their gear simply sits in the basement collecting dust.
Enough of this elitist oh-you're-not-a-real-pro-why-are-you-killing-my-industry mentality already.
No way, Kev!
If you love to shoot, go out and shoot. Like portrait shooting? Go shoot your boy/girlfriend, parents, children, friends, just for the love of doing it. They gladly pay some beers and have an amazing evening together talking about the good time you had shooting. Frame right, shoot jpg and you have plenty of pics to give. This is worth a lot more than 10,20,50,100$.
Let's make that a rule; if you're not a professional photographer, then you are limited as to who you can photograph.
(Good luck with that, given that one common rule of photography is to Break all the Rules.)
Kev, let's ignore the whole not making a profit thing ... the moment these people charge for their service they enter into the wonderful world of client / vendor relations and all the LEGAL issues that surround that type of relationship ... things like liability, contractual obligations, acceptable standards of service ... it won't matter to a judge that a couple paid 10$ for a shoot if the couple was physically injured during the shoot. The photographer accepted money in exchange for services rendered? He's a vendor and as such liable but at these rates he won;t have professional liability, he won;t have backup gear, he won;'t have gear insurance, he won't have properly vetted contracts and releases ...
Imagine being one of these photographers, accepting a shoot at 20$ and then having to pay someones medical expenses out of pocket due to a lack of PROFESSIONAL liability insurance.
This is a REALLY bad idea.
Your analogy doesn't really apply here. Guys who fly around to play golf can't just go and enter the PGA Tour, and drive down endorsement pay from sponsors all because they can afford to go to Augusta National with a nice set of clubs they bought from the pawn shop. But any person off the street with a working knowledge of cameras, and the drive to market and sell can do just that in the photographer market. Think of this more like the urban model scene. When only a few women had the body worth paying for, rates were sky-high to get those few in a video or endorsement deal. As the market became saturated with more and more girls willing to do more and accept less money, all prices were driven down, and the more sought after girls were pushed to diversify their skillset or accept the lower wages.
Now, if people use it as a stepping stone to building portfolios, that's a different story altogether. But this is not a real argument for the practicing professionals; it's the middle class of photographers that will take the brunt of this. Crowdsourcing has yet to strengthen any industry, and regardless of what people think, it does not educate people as to what artisan things should cost; it helps to reinforce the devaluation of the craft.
I agree, mine was not the best analogy. I'm sure you can come up with a better one. The simple point I was trying to make, in response to Lefebvre, is that sometimes people will pay money/lose money to do something they enjoy. I hate golf, btw.
And before the "clients come to the shoot, they'll go to the Barber College for haircuts.
Actually that is a pretty good analogy. They go for the cheapest option simply because it is cheapest. Money is their only concern, which is fair enough. But they don't actually care about the outcome.
For lack of a better term, some people have no taste. And the truth is, I don't want those people as my client.
Owning a semi-pro camera has never been easier. (Trend #1 high-tech more accessible than ever.) On the other hand, office jobs (9 to 5) are scarce due to the economy and again trend #1, making people question the risk involved in setting their own gig as photographers. (Trend #2) Further more, social media (read: larger facebook photographs, flickr, instagram) paired with cheap cameras have fuelled the interest for photography of many many more people than ever before. (Trend #3) and finally, e-learning is now a reality and the #4 mega trend. So, pro photographers are getting it... TEACHING is the real future business (or at least an important part of) for photographers. That's what lynda.com, Scott Kelby, Peter Hurley, Joe McNally, Fstoppers, and many more photographers around the globe have already figured out. Stop complaining, and start teaching. Embrace change.
Yeah, there was a time when the separation between an amateur and pro was pretty simple: Equipment, Education, Resources (darkroom, studio, etc.).
Now, the equipment is cheaper and better, you can be self taught through books and the internet, and $1500 will get you a darkroom in a box (that will do more than you could ever do before). So the industry is in upheaval trying to find new, less tangible ways to differentiate amateur and pro.
This is irrelevant to established pros, but it can be a double-edged sword for emerging photographers. For people struggling to build a portfolio, who approach this as a great opportunity to practice working with clients, making contracts, and completing jobs, this could be a great stepping-stone to success. Or, it could be a place where all the wannabes go to die, leaving the high end of the market for the pros to fight over.
I'd just be worried about what it does to the family portrait photographers.
Уже несколько месяцев,я думал над таким сайтом, но кто-то уже его сделал!)
Этот сайт поможет людям найти лучшего фотографа за свою цену в своем городе!
Adapt People, Adapt. You should only be worried if the $10 work is better than yours.
I'm not worried for myself. I'm wondering how this can work (it can;t) and I'm worried about the risk this is placing these amateurs in. They have no understanding of the legalities of client / vendor relationships. At the rates they are charging, they won;t be able to afford backup gear, professional liability, legal fees ...
This is a REALLY bad idea.
This is crazy...because one smart-ass wanna earn some quick bucks from the photographer wanna-be....he kills off all established photographers. Sam Yam, you just made yourself famous among all photographers! Kudos to that and keep tearing the industries apart! You da man!
This is no different than what 99 designs does for graphic design. Quite note there is that their prices started out VERY low like this companies, and as its caught on and demand surged prices have climbed about 5X. Wouldn't surprise me if this worked out the same before a minimum price would be a few hundred bucks.
What about "I think that sounds like fearful, hatin` shit!" ?
When I discovered Fstoppers about good a year ago, I "liked" it because most of all the articles and posts were interesting or informative. In the last months all got more and more trival, a lot stupid articles like this one, "what do you think about bla", three new canon objectives every day, and some mockery about how everone nowadays seems to think he`s a photographer. Grow up. You dont have to sell your work for 10S. For some, this is a good opportunity to start their work, to get exercise, or to stay away from internet porn.
By the way, I can not see any harm if everyone starts daddling in photography. We are talking about people getting involved into art and DOING something, instead of watching telly or PS3. How would this be wrong?