So far, Canon seems to be focusing the majority of their wow factor on the lenses in their mirrorless line, creating some truly unique glass with incredible optical quality. On the other hand, their mirrorless bodies have sat more firmly in the midrange market, but that may be about to change, as a professional-level mirrorless body is likely on its way next year.
Canon Rumors is reporting that it’s likely that a professional-level mirrorless body is coming next year in time for the 2020 Summer Olympics in Tokyo. It’s not yet clear if that body will be simply in the hands of professionals for testing or a ready-to-ship consumer product, but either way, it’s not surprising to hear that they will have some sort of professional body coming out then, as the Summer Olympics are typically the proving grounds for the top-level bodies and lenses for the major manufacturers. On the same token, if this means we can expect some telephoto and supertelephoto lenses to continue to fill out the RF lens lineup remains to be seen, but I certainly wouldn’t be surprised to see at least one new model in hands of select photographers come Tokyo. Either way, next year should be quite exciting!
Canon + Professional Camera + Affordable Price = Does Not Compute...
I totally agree with you, but has Sony really been any cheaper on their top-end gear lately? I believe I heard that the Sony A7R mkIV is getting close to $4k US? And I checked their lens prices awhile ago and seemed to be up there with Canon lens's now.
EDIT: I just read in another article here that someone commented that B&H has the A7R mkIV at $2500? If so, I have to eat my words....
A7riv is $3499 at all authorized USA retailers....
Yea, that's what I had read prior as well. Add tax to that and you are real close to $4k. So I just checked B&H and they list it as you have stated and what I thought, that commentor was incorrect at it being $2500.
i'm not sure where you live that sales tax on $3500 is nearly $500. in my state of NC it would be $166.25. It's not like sales tax is anything new.
Yea, understood, but just giving it perspective that its getting close to the $4k price tag. I didn't say that it was at $4k, but if to be technically correct, saying that it was close to $3700 would have been more correct.
You were initially critical of sonys pricing being expensive, when compared to canon or nikon its almost always a better value for the dollar. More MP, better DR, better AF, IBIS, Lens selection, etc. You keep moving the goal posts...
Its kind of funny considering sony has been undercutting nikon and canon for about 5 years now.
I wasn't being critical of the price, just that Sony's price is now at the same (or more) than the Canon and Nikon bodies. As you said, Sony had been undercutting the others on price and offering as many features as they thought would give them an edge. Good for them.
Now they obviously feel they don't need to be the cheap option amongst the three.
Again, good for them. Buy the camera that fits your needs for all your reasons.
I personally shoot Canon and Olympus and have no brand hatred for any of the others. I like both of my cameras, and for me I would rather learn one system and support it than to jump around for the latest gadget.
And I would have to give Sony a lot of credit for being able to get where they are against the big two in such a relatively short time.
Bodies are tending to run consistent in pricing with their same level DSLR counterparts except for the a9 being much cheaper than the 1DX / D5 cameras. Sony’s lenses are close to or slightly more expensive than their DSLR counterparts and CHEAPER than their mirrorless competitors from Canon/ Nikon.
Sony is just waiting for everyone to get a ton of their lens and hooked in so they can jack camera prices just like Canon and Nikon.
I hope Canon takes their slow A$$ down to the Sony sensor factory and actually buys a sensor worth putting in their cameras.
That would be incredible, and I'd definitely pick one up (for the right price) to use with all the EF lenses I currently use on Sony.
Wonder if it will be good enough to stop me selling off the rest of my Canon lenses and 5DSR and going all Nikon. The Z6 is a joy. At this point, I highly doubt Canon will build anything competitive: full frame, high quality video; absolutely minimal rolling shutter, particularly in DX; great dynamic range; nearly noiseless shadows; wonderful ergonomics; excellent viewfinder, resolution and eye distance; perfect one touch zoom for manual shooting.
Hopefully Canon will prove me wrong.
I recently got a Z6 and it is easily my favorite (interchangeable lens) camera I've ever used. The ergonomics are the best of any mirrorless camera I've used or owned, which includes multiple Sonys, Fujis, Olympus, and Panasonics (Fujis are ergonomically brilliant too and I love them, but they don't do as well with bigger lenses). I've always want to go FF mirrorless, but every time I'd get a Sony I'd remember why they just don't work for me. So I'd go back to DSLRs. But the Z cameras... just brilliantly designed. I tried out an EOS R and while the grip made it comfortable to hold, the controls are bizarre in some cases (multi-function bar) and button placement (AF-On button is in a horrible spot) is pretty poor.
I was not expecting (based on many reviews last year) to love the Z6 as much as I do. The new firmware certainly helps, I'm sure.
And the EVF is just gorgeous.
It's nearly a perfect evolution from a well-established DSLR design to a new mirrorless one. Controls, buttons, menus... just a seamless transition from the DSLRs. Canon really messed up on that part, imo.
You've described the joys of shooting with a Z6 very well, Matt. It's so nice to have a fold out screen on a high quality camera. The absence of a foldout screen slowly started to take the joy out of shooting with my 5DIII. I don't like the flip screens on 6DII as they are a bit awkward and slow to set up.
I realized that two veteran Canon shooters managed to write about how great the Z6 without mentioning IBIS. The Z6 is a much camera than the EOS R, without considering IBIS. IBIS is very nice, btw, for vintage manual focus lenses in the 70mm to 135mm range. The steady viewfinder at longer focal lengths and higher keeper ratio in low light situations really helps. Not to mention IBIS means you can shoot video with almost any lens. I top it at 135mm as above that IBIS isn't particularly effective, although the viewfinder is steadier),
Don't think Canon has high quality IBIS planned for us as well.
What Canon really need to do is take the Canon 5D Mark III and Canon 5DS R controls and put them on an EOS R body with better video and IBIS and a foldout screen. Canon's marketing and design team really seem to have lost the thread though. The financial success they've had with segmentation, slow rollout of incremental upgrades and deliberate feature crippling has perverted their minds to the point they cannot think straight. Canon executives at this point have transformed from Smeagol into Gollum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knImeAiO1qc
I actually come from Nikon DSLR, though prior to that I shot Canon (since about 2007/2008). I always liked both - have nothing against Canon DSLRs, a lot of their glass is lovely and cheaper than the Nikon equivalent. I just moved to Nikon one day when I picked up a used D7100 and realized I could use the older, cheaper AF-D lenses with it. Then I sold my Canon gear and picked up a D810.
The Canon 5D's and 5DS R are actually a bit more comfortable to me than the D800 series. And their controls/menu are as good, just different. Really can't say the same about the Z6/7 and EOS R, though. You're absolutely right about taking the controls from the 5D's and evolving them over to mirrorless. The EOS R just upended all of that which was a real mistake because 1) the transition from DSLR to mirrorless is made harder and 2) you now have an untested, gen 1 design which is bound to have issues (I swear to god everyone hates that bar thing).
The IBIS in the Nikon is amazing. I'm used to pretty good IBIS because I also have an Olympus, but I'm not used to it in FF. I originally set the camera up to default to a 1/(focal length) minimum shutter speed, then realized I can easily do 1/half (probably even lower but I'm not pushing it). With the D810 I had to do 1/2x focal length (due to lack of IBIS and higher pixel density).
And I cannot gush enough about the viewfinder. First real time I've comfortably been able to see everything in a big, bright picture (since I wear glasses). Makes manual focus so easy.
And the options! There's an option for everything I can imagine. I love that instead of just deciding between electronic front curtain on or off, you can set it to auto where it uses the EFCS below 1/250th and full mechanical faster than that.
And battery life is WAY better than places reported, probably because I set the display to Prioritize Viewfinder, which turns the LCD off (except for menu/playback), and also turns the EVF off when it isn't up to your eye. Basically, it's like a DSLR this way. Testing people probably always had either the EVF or LCD on.
Anyway, I'll stop there. It's just a lovely camera. Now I just wish Tamron would update more of their lenses to work with the FTZ adapter. I emailed them yesterday and they said they are coming but didn't specify when.
The 5DSR is a beast and not a "fun" camera to shoot, but it can produce some images that are hard to beat from others in the same class when shot within its niche'. I shoot with it and I consider it as a great tool to produce what I need from it, definitely not for enjoyment. I can understand your thinking on switching though, depending on your reasons....
The 5DSR is a wonderful camera - so don't get me wrong. It is very nice ergonomically, better I think than the D800/D810. It's also a little nicer color wise for landscapes (greens are rendered with more accuracy), but that's largely a matter of color profiling (any camera can be profiled to a neutral color point, some are just more difficult than others). Other nice things about it over the Nikon DSLRs:
1) slightly better AF (I think) - and of course better AF in live view
2) better mirror damping to reduce vibration and shutter induced vibration is better (I am unclear if it has EFCS or not)
3) Custom shooting settings, which for some damn reason have always been left off the professional Nikons (but included in the lower end bodies!) - this is fixed with Z6/Z7
4) Slightly nicer OVF, at least for me as a glasses wearer
5) a number of lenses that Nikon just doesn't have, particularly the wonderfully sharp but tiny 40mm pancake
Anyway, I can't speak for Alec, but: with cameras like the D850/Z7 (and possibly Panasonic S1R), the 5DSR doesn't have much of a resolution advantage anymore. Its DR is lesser than those cameras, but not that's not as big of a deal as everyone makes it out to be, except in extreme situations. Shadows block up pretty quickly; you don't have much latitude in the shadows, which is unfortunate because the matrix metering (or whatever Canon calls it) is not as good as Nikon's. It's more tolerant of overexposure than under, which isn't necessarily a good or bad thing unless the meter is fooled by strong point light sources. I find this to be true of most Canon's (whereas Sony's deal with underexposure quite well; a sometimes effective way to preserve highlight detail).
But... if you want mirrorless, like I suspect Alec does, there isn't much to compare between Canon and Nikon's offerings. The Z bodies are as close to perfect ergonomically as any mirrorless camera I've ever held. The sensors (especially Z6) are incredible in low-light. The current Z lenses are preferable options (for me) than the current RF lenses. And video... it isn't even a competition there.
If Alec doesn't need the resolution of the 5DSR, the Z6 is a pretty perfect alternative. If he does, the Z7 is even better (at the expense of worse video vs. the Z6).
The upcoming EF to Z mount adapter (forget who is making it) would make a smooth transition for him (or anyone) with Canon lenses as well. Hell, you can even use autofocus Sony FE lenses on the Z cameras now!
I love Canon's DSLRs for a great number of reasons. I've waffled back and forth over time between them and my Nikons. But when it comes to mirrorless.... Canon just isn't doing it. I'm not even talking about the old sensors they use or their crippled video; I just think they royally screwed up on the design. And if a camera isn't comfortable for me, I can't use it.
What really bothers me about my 5DSR (and the 5DIII that I've sold) is the absence of a tilt out screen. I do a lot of low angle shooting. Scrabbling around down on hands and knees, making a spectacle out of myself for a simple casual shot has no appeal any more, now that I've tasted a tilt screen.
DSLR/optical viewfinder are better for sports (I shoot quite a bit, including with that 5DSR). Mirrorless are much better for shooting manual lenses and shooting video. 5DSR suiffers atrocious rolling shutter (video) and limited resolution (better than the 5DIII) with video.
The 5DSR is also a bit too big for a carry camera. My Nikon Z6 is not that much smaller but it is just enough smaller to be more comfortable as a carry camera. Particularly with a small Leica M or OM Zuiko manual focus lens. I own the Techart Pro TZE-01 which allows me to continue to shoot my favourite small lens, the Sony ZA 35mm f2.8. I do miss the Canon EF 40mm f2.8 but these two are largely interchangeable. The Nikon Z kit with Sony ZA 35mm f2.8 is about 700g while the Canon 5DSR with EF 40mm f2.8 is about 1000g.
Why all Nikon? I'm tired of jumping between camera systems due to the deliberate crippleware limitations of Canon cameras. While the Sigma MC-11 allows Canon shooters to mix Canon DSLR and Sony mirrorless to some good effect, Sony A7 series cameras are horribly uncomfortable for left eye shooters. It's impossible to look through the viewfinder and use the controls at the same time.
Nikon is not perfect but they are trying to help photographers by building the best camera they can in a price segment. D750 is crippled by its small buffer but otherwise is almost faultless in its price category, Z6 is a lot of camera for the money as well, D850 pulls no punches. If money were no object and I could have:
1. a Canon EOS R
2. a 1DX Mark II
3. a 5DSR
4. a C200
all at the same time it would equal the following in performance for my needs:
1. Nikon Z6
2. Nikon Z7 or D850
3. Nikon D4 (I know this is older but it does what the 1DX Mark II needs to do in terms of sports stills for me: no attempt to make the sports body to video double duty, as Canon does)
The first list costs about €20,000. The second list is about €6000.
Frankly I've had enough of high resolution photography at 35mm. Even most good lenses look their best on bodies at about 24MP to 30MP. I feel I can pass on the 5DSR/D850/Z7 category for now. Later when prices fall I would be interested in adding a Z7 or D850 to my kit. But in a way it would just complicate matters. I know the lenses I own, I know my Z6, I can hit almost any landscape or portrait with 24MP. This brings a Nikon bodies list cost down to €4500 (adding back in a second Z6 for backup, or two camera setup). If one removes the C200 from the Canon list, one is still at €11000 in bodies.
I'd rather invest that money on glass. I'd rather not have that much money tied up on bodies. I'd rather have one system. Nikon is the only camera manufacturer now who allows a photographer to benefit from unfettered mirrorless and first-class full frame DSLR capability.
It's Canon's fault that I moving away. If Canon had produced an EOS R with a 5D style interface and no crop high quality video (no hidden crippling), I would have bought that camera and stayed a Canon shooter forever.
Instead, Nikon produced that camera. After overcoming my initial aversion to expensive XQD cards and Nikon conventions (VR instead of IS, ludicrously long lens names, slightly ugly/utilitarian looking lenses in comparison to Canon), it turns out that the Z6 is such a joy to shoot that I don't really need or want any other camera, apart from a DSLR for my sport work once/week.
And again, I want to go back to shooting a single system.
Switching between interfaces is a haptic distraction and means doubling up on a lot of costs (lenses, batteries). Happily tripods, tripod heads and monopods work between brands.
You obviously understand the tools that you need and the limitations that certain equipment gives you, and you made your decisions accordingly. Much better than loyalists who don't care or people that jump ship for the latest trend.
I personally have a love/hate relationship with my 5DSR. I love the images that it can produce when shooting it in its "happy place", but otherwise I really struggle with it. Tried using it for a golf event this last week, not good. It is definitely not a versatile camera. I will look at getting the 5D mkIV soon I think for non-studio work.
Also for video work, I settled for using the Blackmagic gear for that, wanted the C300 but was really annoyed at what Canon believes that camera is worth.
Ted, I shot a whole season of soccer with a 5DS R, including night games in very low light. I had no trouble shooting even at 12800 ISO thanks to DxO PhotoLab's Prime Noise Reduction. PhotoLab PNR creates an extra two usable stops for Canon shooters. With golf you might struggle with the 5 fps limit (it's fine for soccer, as is the buffer).
I've heard for golf silent is much better (soccer it doesn't matter, hence the machine gun D4 acquisition, Canon's continuous shutter is much quieter; my D4 won't be going anywhere near the theatre and ballet I sometimes shoot). In that case, either a Sony A9, a Fuji X-H1 or a Nikon Z6 are the quietest cameras I know of (using mechanical shutter or ultrafast electronic shutter like in the A9). You can't use silent electronic shutter normally for golf due to rolling shutter.
I have a 5DSr for mainly landscapes. Why are you contemplating a switch to Nikon?
FYI, most of my lenses are Zeiss.
I love FSTOPPERS... but I was surprised to see such a pathetic example of CLICK BATE-"no news" article. Please don't make this a trend.
Someone needs to qualify this unique glass with incredible optical quality.
Looks like glass to me with weasel words.
Publish the MTF and compare with the previous DSLR counterpart.
You might want to tone down until you have the data that supports such a claim.
You can be sure that Canon will blow away this Camera with more MP models .. 80 MP.
Its when Push comes to Shove
I don't know about the other RF lenses, but the new 50mm 1.2 is definitely better than the old DSLR one. Sharper with FAR less CA. And the 28-70 f/2 has tested incredibly well, as one of the best Canon mount mid-range zooms, though it doesn't have a predecessor to compare directly to.
I prefer Nikon's approach to their lens releases, which is similar to how Sony started out (except better IQ), but there's no doubt that Canon's RF lenses are matching - and often exceeding - their DSLR counterpart.
What a news, and you know Alex the sun rises and sets as well? Where is a common sense of editors or clicks are only way to gain attention in this world? Happy shooting everyone..
Because all the Canon users were complaining about having no news to be happy about and Sony releasing new cameras AGAIN that far exceed the lineup Canon currently offers for the third year in a row.
Gotta try to keep them as users of this site I guess.
Damn shame 🤣
I wouldn't say it's complaining, I think Canon users have a legit argument. Sony is mopping the floor with Canon. All I'm asking for is an announcement on something a 1DX mirrorless, 5DS mirrorless. Release it in 2020, I have to save up for it anyway, an announcement is all it would take. Then I could compare the Sony a9ii and Canon's and weigh the options.
I have a Canon 6D and 5DM2 that collect dust. They’ve stared at me for the past 5 years and I haven’t looked back since I made the switch (back when I really shouldn’t have).
Canon has confirmed that a professionally orientedhttps://bit.ly/2OiiA8Wmirrorless camera is currently being developed. In an interview with DPReview, the company stated that "the pro-level camera that you're expecting is on the way".
nice
I hope the new professional stills camera can record video in 10-bit C-log, with true full-frame (not a sensor crop).
I would highly doubt that Canon will add features to their stills camera's that will reach into their video market cameras. They have in the past have limited those features to keep their "C" line, especially the C300 as their solutions to video. Its a shame though when the other guys can give you those video features as a plus to the stills cameras....
Would the mount be different? I have a 5DSr with Zeiss lenses. I am not giving up that glass.
It's a mirrorless so the mounts are different. You'll have to use an adapter if you want this newest Canon and keep your Zeiss lenses.
Rumours are just rumours. You can't take pictures or shoot videos with rumours.
Ditto !
All they have to do is copy all that innovation Sony has been doing all the work for where people can use the Canon glass they have stockpiled and done.
I'm not holding my breath. As a Canon shooter, the last Oh-Wow entry was the 5D2 in October, 2008. I would not be surprised if this new entry will be not quite enough pixels, with not quite good enough AF, with not nearly good enough sensor noise, at best an existing anti-alias filter that can be canceled (vs. not including one at all), and likely no IBIS.
I hope I'm wrong but am pretty sure I won't be.