A Photographer was sacked from a maternity shoot she had been booked for, and subsequently received a barrage of texts after the client discovered she was a lesbian.
Based in Mobile, Alabama, Faith Grace had been hired by a woman named McKenna. In researching her chosen photographer, McKenna noticed a rainbow flag – that of LGBT pride – on Grace’s personal Instagram account. This is when McKenna allegedly text Grace to say she no longer wished to work together.
McKenna wrote:
I went through your personal Instagram account to get to your photography business account and on your personal pad I saw that you had a pride flag. Are you gay or do you have family that’s gay?
The 21-year-old photographer replied by confirming that the reason the flag featured on her account was because she was, indeed, gay herself.
At this point, McKenna was incredibly blunt about how she felt, stating “I don’t want someone who’s gay to take my pictures.” She went on to explain that she feels it is “not right,” and ultimately that she didn’t want her other child, who is five years of age, to be influenced by someone of that sexual orientation. To add insult to injury, she signed off: “I’m sorry that you think that this lifestyle is OK and acceptable.”
Since sharing the screenshot on Twitter, it has since been shared 38,000 times before Grace made her profile private.
Lead photo credit: Leah Kelley.
[via The Independent]
A prominent story in the news for quite some time now, is a wedding provider refusing to do business with clients because the clients are gay, and now a story of a wedding client refusing to do business with a provider because the provider is gay.
It is quite relevant with regards to current affairs; a timely article.
It's not relevant at all because businesses and customers are held to different standards. A person can freely choose not to patronize a restaurant because the owner is a Chinese person and I would not be legally wrong even if it might be morally abhorrent. A restaurant, however, cannot refuse to serve a person who wants to pay because they are Chinese.
We use our own personal biases to direct our own money to or away from certain businesses each day for all sorts of reasons and it's perfectly normal and expected behavior.
«…because businesses and customers are held to different standards.»
Which is precisely why it is relevant; it is the opposite side of the same ugly coin. The previous issue is heads, the current issue is tales, the relevance is the coin.
Ok, I guess. If you choose to view it that way... I don't agree that they are two sides of the same coin (unless you mean for "bias" to be the coin). To me, it's just a reflection of the natural order of things. Between businesses and consumers, the power is always in the hands of the consumer because businesses exist for consumers, not the other way around. It's not a balanced relationship nor is it meant to be.
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I'm sorry, but unless you are wishing to suggest that this sort of behavior is novel or is somehow part of a growing trend, then it's not "news". There have always been people that have refused the services of professionals for questionable reasons due to the race, gender, nationality, etc., etc. of the provider. "There are idiots among us" is not exactly a news flash.
Gotta watch out for those gays. I hear if they touch you while your pregnant, or come in contact with your children, that they can turn them gay. Scary stuff.
I am a Bible Thumping, God Fearing, Jesus Preaching, Righteous Living, Sinner Baptising, Christian, and find both this story and the Baker story quite ridiculous. Whereas the right-wing, conservative, evangelical Christians can certainly find scriptures which indicate that the homosexual lifestyle is not favourable in God's sight, they cannot sight one scripture which suggests that they ought not do business with non-members of the church who participate in the wickedest of behaviors.
Indeed, Paul says that we have to continue doing business with them, or leave the world. That is the choice we are given.
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“I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.
“What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?”
~~~ —1Cor 5:9-10, 12
In other words, one can do business with a liar, a cheater, a prostitute, a porn star, a rapist, a pedophile, a serial killer, a slanderer, an alcoholic, a repetitive drunk driver, a money grubber, et al, as long as they do not claim to be members of your church.
People who call themselves Christians and claim to have a Biblical right not to do business with people who do not abide by the right-wing, conservative, Christian pillars of faith, have no grounds on which to stand. The real problem is the court clerk who divorced her first husband, married and divorced two more times, then re-marry her first husband, then refuses to do the job she accepted by not granting a marriage license to a gay couple, because she, (the court clerk), claims she is a Christian. That is the person of whom Paul speaks, with whom we should not associate.
I think you're extrapolating from Paul's words. It's not at all clear to me, "judge those inside" means to not associate with them. Matthew 18:15-17
For brevity, and to avoid excessive religious discussions in a photography orum, I omitted verses 11, and 13, which clearly states that Paul does not want us to associate with such people, not to even eat with such people, and to expel such people from the fellowship. This now raises the question of showing love to the lost, then we have to pull up another scripture where Paul explains how this is actually “tough love” and the ultimate goal of restoration, then that brings up the other issues, and other issues and other issues….
…Then we all get banned from Fstoppers. We can take the discussion of what Paul meant to a Christian or a Theist forum. I just was trying to not turn this forum into a religious debate.
I understand your reasoning but I suppose it depends on your definition of "associate". I think he meant fellowship but not that you can't say "hello" on the street. Yeah, I think the best way to not turn it into a religious debate is to quote scripture. ;-)
While I never shy from stating my point of view stems from my religious beliefs, I don't quote the Bible except in response to someone else doing so first. I'm glad you did. :-)
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My point was that there exists groups which would make a claim and validate it from the Bible, —nothing wrong with that— but refuse to act in the manner prescribed by that same Bible, mistreating those on a false pretext, refusing to do business, instead of doing what Paul and Jesus did, hanging out with, and being real, genuine friends towards, those whose behavior they do not condone. This is in contrast to the left-wing, liberal, contemporary Christians who do condone the behavior and do business.
My point is if one are going to use the Bible to not condone the behavior, then don't use one's religion, based on said Bible, to not do business with them, as such a teaching to not associate with them is not found in the Bible. The Bible may teach that the lifestyle is wrong, but it in no way teaches that such people, (outside the body), are to be shunned, avoided, disassociated, etc.
But I do not want to start a religious discussion on whether or not the LGBT lifestyle is or is not acceptable to God, but rather, merely discuss that IF God has a problem with anyone's behavior, for whatever reason, does God demand or not demand that we do or do not conduct business with any particular person based on that behavior.
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But we are not discussing the social lifestyle choices; we are discussing business choices. So we agree. Do business with whomever.
My problem with this is that the client has no right on lecturing the photographer on her stance on the photographer's sexual preference/orientation. Yes she has the right to say she will hire another shooter, a resounding yes the client has the right to choose another provider, however she could do without the lecture.
This is an interesting topic! Although I align far more with the photographer as far as my attitude to the gay community, I don’t think the photographer handled this well at all.
She’s treating her would-be client like a business. I’m trying to remember the last time I “Yelped” one of my clients and I’m coming up short. So the client said some nasty, bigoted stuff. So? You collect your deposit and you gracefully move forward. You’re better off not dealing with that client. I’m sure if all of us posted correspondence with crappy clients to the internet, we’d all have stories to tell. But this client is just that - a client. Nothing more. Now, if the roles were reversed then yes, the buying public should know that the photographer has a clear anti-LGBTQ bias.
I don’t think it’s healthy to get in the habit, as a business, to think that everyone has to be nice to you or risk your internet wrath. Businesses need thicker skins than this. Again, you collect your deposit, be grateful that you didn’t have to work with this client, and move on to the next one.
Someone said, “it is forbidden to forbidden” . Let’s see what is all the fuss.....really about. Perhaps it is just 2 people who see life different. The freedom in America is the to choose what you want and when you want it. Not sure if this website is for the sort of chatter...not a wise choice in my view for Fstoppers to report this. Perhaps, to get more clicks for ad revenue.
Reading all this reminds me of my youth. The catholic church was predominant in my part of the Netherlands and there was no free choice. The church decided everything for you upto the point that women who got married were fired immediately after their marriage and the local priest urged women to get pregnant again and again. They threatened you with hell and damnation. They forced their beliefs onto us and there was no room for personal reflection or convictions. Swallow or be condemned. Hell and damnation were your part. I grew up like many other in an atmosphere of anxiety.
That stopped in the seventies. People were fed up with the constrictive ideas of a church whose priests (certainly not all of them, there were good ones) raped young boys and girls and devastated thousands of lives. They told you what you couldn't do but did everything that was forbidden themselves. The scandals only came public knowledge after decades and the church upto this day lies about it although the evidence is quite clear.
Back to the subject. Some of you think it is alright to show that you are christian but if you want to show you are gay, you can't??? Really, that is rather hypocritical.
Let me say this:
Matthew 7:1-6
John 8:7
Matthew 5:43-48
Mark 12:31
Romans 5:8
There is a nasty bit of arrogance in thinking that you are a better person because you are a Christian, or Muslim or whatever. I still remember that Jesus gave his love to everybody, regardless of who or what they were. He didn't judge other people, so why should Christians judge others?
It is not the words you speak or read which makes you a decent human being, neither is being a religious person a guarantee for anything. It is the actions you take in life that decides what kind of person you are.
This is not intended to rebut your commentary or take sides in the article, but to clarify your thinking. There is a very real and important difference between judging someone's actions and judging them as a person. In today's culture, it is easy to accept gay culture and actions but apply your reasoning to something less acceptable. Would it be okay to show you're a pedophile or a zoophile? Of course not. So the question becomes, is homosexuality bad or not? From a Judea-Christian point of view, it's bad and repugnant to God. As a Christian, the act should be no less repugnant. But as Karim stated, above, that shouldn't be a reason to not engage in commerce.
There is also a difference. Being gay is within the law, while being a pedophile is forbidden by law.
Two adult gays who do their thing are on equal basis, while a child and an adult are not.
And as far as I know, neither my country nor the USA have a state religion or are a theocracy.
Civil law and Biblical teaching are two different things, albeit with some overlap. I responded to your scriptural reasoning. I know the Bible VERY well. Laws...don't know and don't care, aside from obeying them as I'm commanded to do.
Let me answer you by first stating that I am a religious person and I believe in God. However, I have long ago ceased to be a Catholic or a Christian.
I always find it curious why people base their lives on a book whose translation is at the best really dubious even if the best and most honest scholars dedicated their lives to it. If you know the bible, you should also be aware that every word and sentence should be questioned due to the extreme difficulty translating ancient Aramaic into a modern language and even the best translations are an interpretation of what might have been meant. The best and most honest scholars will admit that nobody can be sure.
Literally, every line in the old testament could have dozens of interpretations. And I am not even talking about the fact that there was sometimes a really long time between the event and their records.
The new testament is an even more dubious book. There seem to have been at least 16 gospels of which most have been destroyed after the first First Council of Nicaea because they didn't fit the bishops' agenda. And the remaining gospels were redacted by a bunch of Bishops according to their needs. So, of course, you can know the Bible very well but the fact remains that the words in the Bible are highly debatable. I, of course, admit the fact that most Christians don't give a damn about facts.
I repeat my words. Jesus seems to have transmitted a message of love for every being on this earth so why should you judge others? Are you better than Jesus?
Well, this is getting further and further off topic but since it's a subject near and dear to my heart...
I was raised Catholic but don't follow their teachings for reasons not related to this discussion. I am, however, very Christian. That's not to say I'm a protestant or really anything. I read the Bible and try to follow Jesus. I get lost at times. :-/
Everything you wrote about the Bible is true but there's something you aren't considering. If God didn't dictate the Bible, we have very little to know Him by. Everything else in life is only educational when filtered through the Bible. If God did dictate the Bible, knowing it was our primary source of information about Him and, in fact, His message to us, do you really think He's so weak as to allow any number of humans, throughout history, to screw it up? If so, He wouldn't be much of a God.
The Bible isn't the words therein. It is THE word of God, Jesus, and, as such, is not able to be restricted by the efforts of man or even contained, solely within its pages. There was a book, published in 1952, titled, "Your God is Too Small". The point was that most people's perception of God underestimates Him by a huge margin. Ironically, the author's God was also too small. :-)
Finally, Jesus does, in fact, love every single person ever born. He did, however, judge their actions INDEPENDENT of the individual and we are commanded to do the same. Of course I'm no better than Jesus or even nearly as good so when I'm told, "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!", I believe it.
What have I written that was hateful to anyone?
You have written nothing that is hateful to me. The point is that that I don't agree with you. I think the Bible is for a large part a concoction of some Bishops and that is got heavily redacted in the past. Large parts were destroyed.
Of course, it is quite easy to say that God's words can't be influenced by humans and the words of God will survive intact over the centuries but I don't believe that, and neither should you.
If you know anything about history, you shouldn't.
Millions of people lie buried in the ground that were murdered by people pretending to do God's work.
I follow my own conscience and some words in an old book.
If you can't believe the entire Bible, how can you know which parts to believe?
If you don't believe the Bible, that's fine. You should do what you think is best, as will I.
While I support equal rights for all human beings regardless of color, religion, race, or how/by whom they'd like their genitals touched and fall in love with, everyone should be able to work with whomever they feel comfortable. Yes, we're all different. No, not everyone agrees with a gay lifestyle.
I get turned down constantly by most potential white clients. Even by white people I had long considered close friends, when it comes to hiring me as their personal photographer, they balk. I'm pretty sure they'd have hired me to paint their house, but when it came to photographing their children...most whites prefer someone white.
Don't believe me? Look at the websites of black retail photographers--we're not turning down white clients, we just can't get many of them.
But I doubt that's a matter of issue for most people.
Constantly? Really? :-(
I see folks commenting on the photographer using a rainbow flag and how she must be "shoving her lifestyle" down everyone's throat. Maybe someone has already pointed this out, but there are other reasons she could be using it. In particular, she may be promoting her services to the gay community and it's her way of saying "Hey, if you're gay, if you're a gay couple who need photos, I'm cool with that". Because, as we know from recent news, there are photographers or bakers or whatever, who will say "I'm not taking this job because you're gay". It's nice for the gay person and/or couple to know ahead of time if who they're choosing is going to welcome them as a client, or insult them and tell them they're going to hell.
I'm gay and when my partner and I got married 4 years ago, after 18 years together, we were concerned about going to the tux rental store. We debated whether we should go to a "more gay" part of town, but decided to go to the place closest to us. The owner of the store was very professional and serious when we walked in, but when we said we were getting married and needed tuxes, he dropped the serious approach - and proceeded to lavish us with praise. Turned out he was gay, too. But it doesn't always turn out that way. So it's always a risk in these situations. And that's why those of us in the gay community (or Jewish community, or black community, or...) will often look for some kind of small symbol, like a rainbow flag, that tells us whether we're welcome or not.
LOL! I hope the photographer didn't reply. What a waste of time.
I’m not sure the purpose of this story on stoppers. It doesn’t offer any insight, advise, instruction or tips. It simply states some facts of something that occurred with a photographer/client, regarding a highly explosive topic. What’s the purpose of printing this story on fStoppers? What’s the motivation behind it?
But since it was printed, here’s what I would’ve done. I would have hired the photographer whether I agreed with their lifestyle or not. If the photographer produces quality work in a professional manner, that’s good enough for me. If the client was concerned for her daughter, a simple explanation would suffice.
Regarding the question of homosexuality ( it is homosexuality by the way ), the debate will be endless since our country has committed to its support at the highest judicial levels. There is, however a definitive and clear answer to the moral purity of homosexuality. One only has to read what our Creator has to say about it in Romans chapter 1. Of course, few will be those who accept this as Jesus has been “outlawed” as it were from our society, beginning when banning prayer in schools and continuing to this day. Notice I didn’t use the word “religion” or even “God”. Talk about religion or God and most people are at least tolerant of the discussion. Talk about Jesus and you’ll see the hate start flying.
The final word is that GOD LOVES HOMOSEXUALS. That’s right. Therefore we should love them too and demonstrate the love of God to them so that they can turn to Jesus and be forgiven. Sin is sin, be it homosexuality, stealing, adultery or any other such behavior. I would have hired her and maybe even paid her more than she asked. How else will she know the love of God?
Can’t the client choose whomever she wants to photograph her. I don’t like Auburn fans but that wouldn’t stop me from hiring one. But that’s me.
Scenario #1: Fred is a partner in a law firm, Jones, Smigel, and Thompson. On the personal page of the firm's web site, and in his LinkedIn profile and other professional social media outlets, he posts "Fred has been married to his wife Mabel for 25 years. They have two children and love to ski, play racquetball, and help feed the homeless".
Scenario #2: Jim is a partner in a law firm, Jones, Smigel, and Thompson. On the personal page of the firm's web site, and in his LinkedIn profile and other professional social media outlets, he posts "Jim and his partner Steve have been together for 25 years. They have two cats and love to ski, play basketball, and help feed the homeless".
Which one of these guys is pushing his sexual preference on others inappropriately?
Absolutely amazing! Post an article highlighting a social issue and the comments are almost endless....post an article on actual photography and you may get five comments.
Just an observation. 😁