We have to deal with annoying Internet trolls on a daily basis. They usually try to start an argument by posting a ridiculous comment on Fstoppers, Facebook, or YouTube. They used to really bother me, but at this point, I've become pretty impervious to negative comments, but sometimes, these trolls take things too far, especially when they think they are anonymous.
Last week, I put about 20 photography-related items on eBay to sell at auction. I wrote a post about these auctions on Fstoppers, and as always, I was prepared for some negative comments.
One commenter, who I assumed was using a fake name, "Jose Sanchez," wrote multiple comments on the post. I ended up deleting these comments, so I don't have the exact quotes, but the first comment was something about my items being overpriced. I think he specifically made a remark about my D800 having a starting bid of $1,000 and that being a ripoff.
The next comment he made was about me being an untrustworthy eBay seller, because I had horrible feedback. Anyone can see my eBay feedback. It's public. I've been a user since 2002 and I have 805 different feedbacks. Out of 805, I have 6 negative reviews, and all of them were offered a 100% refund.
After "Jose Sanchez" commented four different times on this post, it was pretty obvious it was a fake account made just to troll me. I decided to ban Jose from Fstoppers, and I moved on.
Fast forward one week. Most of the items had been sold and paid for, but one of the sold D800s hadn't been paid for days after the close of the auction. I then got this message from the winner:
After receiving this message, I was immediately skeptical, but this eBay user did have a legitimate history so I decided to respond:
At this point I felt like it was pretty obvious that this was the same person and they had purposefully won the auction with no intention of paying me to perhaps teach me some sort of lesson about eBay? I guess... Anyway, I wanted to see if I could prove it was the same person.
I noticed this eBay user had items of their own for sale. The auctions said the items were located in Montana. I went back into the Fstoppers backend and looked up "Jose Sanchez." This user appeared to use a fake name, but a real email: pgo2372@XXXX.com. A Google search of this email didn't bring up anything, but a search of "pgo2372 photography" brought up this website:
I noticed a few landmarks in the photos and searched for them and found out they were located in Montana. I continued looking around and found this person's Photobucket website where they housed images used for eBay. This page clearly showed the same email address and the eBay user name as a watermark on the images. This was proof that it was, in fact, the same person.
Of course I was then easily able to figure out this person's name and a range of other personal information that I will not share on this post. I don't want anyone bothering them. That's not the point.
I wrote this post because I want to remind everyone that every time you write that offensive comment or mess with someone online, you are doing it to a real person. It's very easy to say things about people, especially public figures online that you would never say to their face. Sometimes, like in this situation, things escalate to a point far beyond words. This person didn't harm me or steal from me, but for some reason, they decided to spend their time and risk their impeccable eBay feedback to inconvenience me. Why? We will probably never know, but I have to deal with stuff like this all the time.
I'm always up for a healthy debate, but there is a pretty clear line between a disagreement online and someone who is just trying to make someone else's life miserable. We never delete legitimate negative comments on Fstoppers, but we will continue to ban those people who only comment when they want to instigate, especially those with fake accounts. If you are one of those people, and you think you're anonymous, as you can see above, it's not too hard to figure out who someone really is. If you're unsure if you're trolling or not, simply ask yourself: "would I say this to this person if they were standing right in front of me?" If the answer is "no," then it's probably not worth typing.
South Park's recent episodes have covered this perfectly:
I noticed this the other day while viewing some woodworking vids on YT. People taking the time not to constructively criticize technique and methods, but to call people terrible things and encourage suicide. How do we move away from troll culture? Is it through teaching kids empathy?
Also, is trolling endemic across all cultures I wonder?
It's a hobby for lonely people who want to cause a reaction of any kind. I've certainly messed with my friends online before but I don't think I've ever gone after someone I didn't personally know.
I must admit though that I will say things like "I hate that actor" "or I hate that sports player" and that is a small step away from writing it online and that is just one additional step from writing negative comments on their twitter or internet videos and becoming a "troll."
Criticizing public figures has become completely acceptable and that has led to trolling as it is today.
So what happens to grade school bullies when they grow up? They become Trolls.
I'm having an internal battle on which is worse: trolling or stalking. That's what eBay's checks and balances are for. When he bid without intention to pay, that went beyond trolling to defrauding. When you found all his information and posted it, that went beyond research into stalking and possible libeling. It's a toss up IMO.
I don't think posting someone's public website user names would be considered stalking or libeling but I expected a comment like this.
And what if one of your readers is a bit unhinged and decides to retaliate based on the info on the page? Personally, I would, and have, taken care of it quietly and kept it private and avoided even the appearance of impropriety - my business is at stake if I slip up.
Not sure those two acts are equal. Lee's post is based on good intentions and only showed publically available information. Anyone can find the completed ebay auction and do the same thing. I for one would want to know who this is (online) so I can avoid future dealings with them.
Anyhow, if you do bad things to good people then you deserve to be named and shamed :D hehe
People need to own up to their actions so I am all for this.
As someone who has been in this industry since long before the Internet, access to important educational information like much of it found on this site is invaluable to anyone motivated to advance his or her knowledge.
That said, I do not feel that the majority of user comments add much if anything valuable to the articles and the reader experience. The few that do could easily be submitted to a private access point (site email, etc.), at which point your admins could review them for relevance and apply the information more productively. Yes, it's easy enough to skip the comments, although they are there and detract from the otherwise professional and educational value of the content.
My favorite example of useless, user-comments regards cinematography.com. I became a member there, several years ago, when I was contemplating a move into documentary, adventure-sports filmmaking. Jim Jannard, at that time, was in the earlier stages of developing his first RED camera and posted there regularly for feedback from professional camera operators. Jannard eventually became almost hostile in his posts, and I called him on it. He went as far as to call my studio and told me to F-off. We quickly cleared the air, and he expressed his frustration with the overwhelming negative thread comments. I empathized with him, and he invited me to the NY RED opening. I realized then that Jannard was not at all what he portrayed in his posts. He was actually breaking ground on revolutionary technology and trying to gain valuable insight from industry professionals. That's not at all what he found on that forum.
It was a complete junk show. Too many—some renowned—shooters did nothing but disparage his concept and input out of hand. Most threads quickly devolved into vapid rants that added nothing useful to the discussions. I eventually stopped reading them, altogether, and opted for industry journals, etc. that excluded reader commentary. I've noticed, over time, that more online news and information sources have removed their comment sections, which, imo, gives them a more professional feel.
Removing comments certainly does give a site a more professional feel but I personally really enjoy reading the comments. And I must admit that many times I actually get more enjoyment from the comments than the posts themselves. It's a tough trade.
Reading the FOX news comments section is a morning ritual for me with coffee. Nothing better.
Fox News Comments? Is that sarcasm? You do know that Fox News is actually 'Entertainment News' sponsored by the Government to promote it's (the Government's) Agenda and has no actual news value at all.
if you're quoting south park that much you should see an episode called safe space
and that episode is dedicated to people like you
Only thing I disagree with is "This person didn't harm me or steal from me." Yes, he stole from you. He intentionally stole the time that you had to spend on the listing and relisting, as well as the relisting fee (even if you can recover it from eBay).
The most worrying thing is the main picture on this page with the man at the keyboard looks like me , I hope you are not trolling me lmao :-)
YES! WIN!
Great Post Lee. I have been dealing with and catching trolls for years, although we called them crooks back then (circa early 1999-2002) :-). I've had everything from people trying to hack my Laptop with skype, to hacking in to get customer information. I guess what these people don't realize is that there is always a digital fingerprint, and there is always a record of when and where they connected. Access to Internet is not free, unless you steal some one's wifi, but even then it is tracked. My rule of thumb...always treat the customer as if you were talking to them face to face in an elevator. Respect, Understanding, and Patience.
Just my 2 cents worth..before 2nd cup of coffee LOL
Come on Lee, that fat guy in the picture you used from Southpark was not a troll, he was an EPIC wow player who kicked ass until the game devs conspired against him. Show some respect man :P.
I may be wrong but I think he has been used as a troll as well in these latest episodes.
Lol, Lee I'm messing with you, I asked you to show respect to a cartoon character lol hahah.
i just do not understand what they get out of it, publish the names and then they can find out what its like to be trolled.
I troll (sometime) but at least I use a real name and photo
Trolling on a comments section isn't great, but can be ignored.
Winning an eBay listing without intending to buy it, then aiming to try and leave negative feedback isn't trolling. I'm glad you tracked him down and shared his eBay username so others can avoid him.
As for making his username public, I guess it's public anyway 🤔
One of the most irritating trolls I have encountered was on a cycling group on Facebook.
Someone asked about a problem with their bike which turned out to be fixable with a tweak from a screwdriver. Out of over a hundred comments there were only about a dozen genuine comments and the rest were "buy a new bike". Now one comment might be funny, but repeating it dozens of times just drowned out the genuine advice. Needless to say, the moderators started banning people pretty quickly after that!
Such a great article Lee! Thanks for sharing! I really don't understand those individuals that only ever pop up on social media simply to goad negative interaction.
Good for you
I love that his photobucket is gone. I expect his other accounts will be too. It is A Good Thing™ when a troll has to spend time reorganising their lives as a consequence of their trolling. It leaves less time for trolling. And Bidding on an Auction with no intention of paying is not just trolling, it's fraud and against eBay's ToS.
Great article, and wise advice...Generally speaking I have some pretty tough skin, but every so often some troll finds a way to get under it. It is then that I envision some pimple-faced teen at home in mom and dad's basement with no social life, and shrug it off.