The search for a good deal in camera equipment can be both rewarding and painful. Nobody is as much of a proponent of finding good, used equipment as I am, but I've definitely been burned before. Just this past week I had a good reminder of why it pays to be cautious in picking up used, and more particularly, discontinued, gear.
I've been dabbling in large-format photography now for a few months and the time has come for me to pick up a field camera. The monorail 4x5 I've been using, while perfectly capable, is a monster to take on location. Twelve pounds of camera plus the tripod and head required to hold all that weight is no fun to lug around. The search was on for a good, used field camera of a decent weight.
My wishes came true (or so I thought) when I found a used Wista 45DX wooden field camera in good condition. Without hesitation, I ordered it. In a few days, my shiny camera arrived and it was gorgeous! The wood was gleaming, the metal was shiny, and besides the odd scuff here and there, it looked like it was in great shape. Then I opened the camera. A sickening tink-tink sound made my stomach drop and I saw that one of the fingers of the clip that holds the lens board on had fallen off. It looked like it had been bent back and forth many times and the stress had finally killed it.
A $75 piece of brass? Yikes.
After spending hours online trying to find a replacement part with no success, I started looking at how much it would cost to fabricate a new part. I got quotes ranging from $75 to $100 at a minimum! This part couldn't have cost more than a couple bucks to make, but the fact that it had to be remade from scratch shot up the price. In the end, I ended up returning the camera.
This brings me to the main point of my article: If you're going to buy gear that's been discontinued, be sure to buy from a vendor with a good return policy and/or warranty. That good deal you got could go south very quickly if you spend hundreds on repairs for something trivial. Had the camera been a run-of-the-mill CaNikon, replacement parts might not have been difficult to come by and buying from Craigslist or some-such would be a good gamble. However, person to person purchases are very risky for used, discontinued gear. B&H, KEH, Midwest Photo, and a few others all have good return policies for their used gear, as well as some reputable eBay sellers. There are deals to be had out there, but make sure you cover yourself in the eventuality that you receive an item that could end up being cost prohibitive in the long run.
$75 for someone to remake that is ridiculous.
Would take a metalwork hobbyist about an hour and a few dollars worth of material
That's also the attitude many have towards photography. It's not as if you got film to pay for any more and it's only a few hours of your time. Ignoring the fact that digital, at least for a professional, is often more expensive than film could be.
Something you can learn yourself if it's easy enough for a hobbyist. A rubber hammer, a vice, a file, saw and Bob's your uncle. How hard can it be?
Oh I agree, metalworking is a skill. No matter how trivial the job is for them, they have a business to run, overhead, etc. Definitely not faulting the shops for trying to make a living. I just want people to be aware that the cost of repair for older items may negate any deals received in the initial purchase.
During my apprenticeship I could have made that in about 20 minutes, which by my calculations would run to maybe $20 max, then add in extra to cover overheads and you get to maybe $40.
I think photography is a different kettle of fish as it can involve hours of preparation, and often involves hours of post-shoot work which isn't seen by the client
This is exactly what happens with photographry and photographers. Anyone with a camera and skill can take a picture. But making one....
Did you try asking around on http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum ?
Well, that's the beauty of buying with a good return policy. Time is money, and there's only so much of it I'm willing to give for a broken product. Now, had I had the camera for a few months then yeah, I would have been all over the forums. But this is a great suggestion for people who have had equipment post-warranty!
Hans,
I don't know where you bought your 4x5 from, but I've had great success buying used gear from B&H and KEH. I've bought used Canon FD lenses from B&H, one of those was a MacroPhoto 20mm f3.5. From KEH, I bought a used Canon New F-1 with AE Finder FN, AE Motor Drive FN. I had to get a replacement from KEH for the F-1, but it happened within their warranty period.
Okay — a slightly different tack here. DISCLAIMER: I shoot, or have shot, film and digital from 35mm to 8x10 and currently am shooting 35mm, 120, 4x5, and digital.
First, did you really research this thoroughly before deciding on the Wista? For the average price of better than average condition Wista there are a number of more modern design 4x5 field cameras out there. The Toyos and Horsmen lines come to mind immediately. Shoot, even a 40+ year-pld Crown or Speed Graphic would have held up better (albeit admittedly heavier and not as sexy)
The Wista and all of its imitators/look-alikes were never the most robust cameras out there ... they were, in fact, a bit on the delicate side when it came to handling. They were all intended to be the "me, too!" after the Deardorff — which is anything but light by comparison. Having restored, and sold, an 8x10 Deardorff, I understand the attraction AND the headaches that come with large format, wooden field cameras.
Sadly, with large format, the tradeoff between weight and strength is not always well-resolved, but there ARE other options available. With a little practice, the Sinar F+ or P 4x5 rail configuration can bbeen there, e used as an extremely light weight and robust solution (been there and done that ... the two standards are folded down over each other and the rail becomes a carrying handle).
I would love to have a Wista for the sheer beauty as an object, but to work with one in the field? No, I'd rather use my carbon-fiber Toyo and actually spend the time making photos and not worrying about whether I would be making another trip to my friendly metalsmith/jeweler.
Large format is a wholly-different market that the "Canikon" one ... and as such requires its own research.
When it comes to buying used gear, we MUST do our research first and buy with our heads and not our hearts. Hope this helps your future purchases ...
Yes, I did a ton of research. It seems that you're missing the point of the article. It's not about researching the robustness of the camera in particular, but rather about making sure that the vendor you select has a good policy should things go wrong. It seems like you're saying, "I know you bought a Mustang, but it's not a very good car and you should have looked into Camaros." You may be right, but that has little to do with the subject of the article. It's more about people being careful when buying items that are discontinued.
If that's the point of your article, then perhaps you should have been more clear in getting to it and making it.
I wrote my response because your article comes off as having made the purchase from the heart — "My wishes came true ... " is a pretty emotionally-based statement.
Most of my gear has been second-hand; I researched rigorously, but I look for long-term term (at least 10 years AFTER the product shipped) because that's when you have to worry about how well-things hold up or need to be repaired.
Sure, if you're buying from a vendor, you need to know what their policy on returns of used gear is ... but the best buys aren't always from vendors. Hence my adjuration to research, research, research.
(And no, this ISN'T a "Sorry you bought a Mustang ... " comment ... just that Wistas and their ilk are pretty, but a bit delicate ... a bit high-maintenance)
Thank you for the critique.
By the way, there's a lot of great info and food for thought here that would definitely be at home in an article about selecting a large format camera.
Hans, thanks — I'm actually glad you wrote this. I really wasn't trying to do that Mustang/Camaro thing ... it's just that the Wista style is an older style field camera and there are some WONDERFUL (AND AFFORDABLE) new style cameras out there.
When I started looking for one, I was delighted to see the use of carbon fibre, which allows the inherently sturdier Speed/Crown Graphic style of field camera to weigh much less than before (the Graphics have metal bodies and are veritable tanks. One of them is the Toyo, which is still being produced and there are some good buys on used ones out there.
As someone who spent a fair bit of time shooting large format film, it is exciting to see an interest in the format and to be able to use modern equipment.
If you can access FaceBook, there is a group dedicated to the buying and selling of film gear (and is in fact where I found my 4x5) ... here's a gem that just showed up this evening:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10210035908995360&set=pcb.174981...
... again, thanks! And happy shooting!
Nice. After I returned the Wista, I ended up going with a new Shen Hao. So far I'm pretty pleased! Judging from my new addiction, im sure it won't be the last large format camera I buy.
I have read now what you have written and I do not understand why Wista is obsolete, cameras and accessories are still manufactured. If you need spare parts it is as easy as going to http://www.wista.co.jp/ and ordering it.