Ok, so we've covered why you should love the Creative Cloud: it gives you access to everything Adobe everywhere you go. It gives you all the outstanding programs at your fingertips. It is taking connectivity to a whole new level for creative collaboration. Updates are instantaneous. But all that aside, it's a stifling, expensive system that might be forcing you into something you don't want.
1) You're only renting the software.
Adobe applications have become what many of us hate about other situations like internet service or rental housing: monthly payments. Worst yet, you no long can say you own the products. What happens if you can no longer afford the pricing, or what if Adobe arbitrarily increases pricing in the future? You can't combat it. You're trapped.
2) It's all or nothing Sorry, my mistake. The real issue is dropping the ability to invest.
There are thousands, hundreds of thousands even, of Adobe customers who only use one program. Lightroom, Photoshop, whatever, they don't need access to Illustrator. They have no idea how to use nor any intention of learning how to use After Effects. What the heck is Speed Grade? Ok, if you want photoshop you CAN buy it by itself, but it's $20 a month. There are CC full subs that are that price, and even at full price that's nearly half the cost of just getting everything. Not really all that appetizing. Plus, there are those of us who really like to buy software and keep it for 8 or 10 years. Can't do that here. No more investing in software, and that has a lot of people miffed.
3) After paying for the subscription for years, in the end you have nothing to show for that investment.
Let's say you buy the software subscription today and continue for the next three years. That's a large investment, and in the end you'll have spent a couple grand and have nothing to show for it. That's an uncomfortable thought.
4) You won't have access to your own files if you end your subscription.
We create thousands of gigabytes of data yearly, much of this data saved as Adobe proprietary file types. You stop paying a monthly fee, you can't access those files. In the past, at least you could open them without fear, even if the software was outdated. Now? Not the case. You pay, or you lose your process. What that comes down to is there is no way to really exit from Adobe. You're, again, trapped.
UPDATE: For those of you who misunderstand point 4, it has nothing to do with the end files you make, but everything to do with the proprietary formats like .psd or .ai. You can't open those files without Adobe programs. That's the issue.
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I think the biggest mistake Adobe has made thus far is ignoring that group that only wants one piece of the software and not the whole suite. There are a lot of creatives who buy software and keep it forever. For them, the CC is exorbitantly more expensive. It's a really tough situation and one where, amongst the folks I've talked about this with, we think Adobe is really missing the mark. There are a lot of angry people out there because people hate feeling forced into things they don't want. They can't invest. That's the real issue.
What other reasons can you think of to dislike the new Adobe Creative Cloud? Will any of you defend it?
Hi Greg,
Here is some feedback for Adobe. This deal is lousy for current Photoshop users. Consider that for all those who upgrade every 18 months, the effective cost has gone from $200 to $360. That is an 80% increase. An 80% price increase is upsetting. Yes, the CNET article you linked to shows how it can be a savings for new users over 3 years, but there are millions of current users who now will have to pay more. So the loyal customer gets to pay more.
Amazingly CNET left this out of the section for who CS is a better deal than CC - millions of current customers.
And what about this? Adobe says they will let a user freeze updates for a year so that you don't get new features pushed on you that you don't want. Great. But what happens when that year is up and the features they are pushing don't work on your computer? Are you then forced to upgrade your computer?
I propose this, which I think would be quite fair for Adobe, earning them more money than under CS:
A reasonable plan would be after someone who is a current licensee of
Photoshop pays for a certain number of months that is at least the
equivalent cost of what it would cost to upgrade, then and only then
would they be able to leave the system with a perpetual license for the
version they have at that time. So for example (as I have a current
license) I could do CC for a year starting on the new version in June,
and then after paying a total of say $240.00 they would give me a
perpetual license for that version. This way they would make $40.00
more off me than the old system, which would have cost me $200.00 for an upgrade. That is a 20% increase in profit for Adobe, and I wind up
with no more than I would have had with the old system.
Thanks for listening,
Kurt
Kurt - I appreciate the feedback and will share internally. Stay tuned.
Also a good point by Kurt. I've never been a fan of always running the latest software because at some point the software will be optimized for a much more powerful computer. And it will be too heavy for an older one. Which can force you into a hardware upgrade that otherwise might not be necessary.
This is why I hate the way Apple forces the latest iOS onto everyone. I had an iPhone 3g that worked great. Then they forced me to upgrade to a version that was optimized for the iPhone 4... After that the phone was a slow clunky useless brick. And they didn't provide any ability to install earlier versions of the OS. So I was screwed. A perfectly good phone, upgraded to death...
There is a kind of Hardware/software sweet spot. Sometimes it's not about having the best most advanced software but the software that works best with your particular computer.
I'm not saying that you tried to hide your payed employ, [you linked you name and twitter, so anyone who looks will see, like I did]. I pointed out who you are for two reasons, 1] for my own schadenfreude: I fully knew I was poking the hornets-nest of "teh internetz comments" Train wrecks happen when just one rail is out of alignment, all it needs is a little nudge.
2] There's a lot of displeasure taken towards individuals who post p.r. comments on behalf of their employers without expressly stating every who they work for. However people generally can't articulate why they feel this way, so I will do so for them: Ancient Greek philosophers realized early on that the problem with the sophists is their monetary compensation. When you are payed, are no longer expressing your genuine opinion, rather you express your self interest.
Don't think this is true? Ask yourself if in the past week you have written anything publicly, that points out a flaw with CC. Oh its perfect you say, well then good sir, you have already proven my point, for no thing is has its benefits without its costs.
There's a sort of underlying assumption on forums that people are expressing what they actually think is right. Its not the P.R. thats the problem, its that the P.R. is expressed in the same medium as regular people's opinions. If I want P.R. I go to Adobe's website, If I want opinions/reactions I go to a forum, & never the twain shall meet. Opinions and marketing, are markedly different beasts. People are sensitive to propaganda, [not to say that it doesn't work] and they can recognize the difference, its only natural to get pissed off when the marketing wears the clothing of an opinion.
Now if you want some better P.R. I'd be happy to discuss that.
I'm not passing any PR. All I'm simply doing is defending the facts. I realize that there are issues. I realize that it's not for everyone. However, readers deserve to know the facts so they are better informed.
It's not a better deal for me, or anyone like me. I only want Production Premium. I don't care about the Master Collection. Also most of the time the upgrades in new versions are nothing to write home about so I do skip upgrades (and I know Adobe hates that but too bad) as it stands now I get everything I need for about $16 a month. Which is a lot less than $50... The only reason I upgraded to CS6 is because I was told by Adobe that if I didn't I would have to pay full price again if I waited until the next release. Which turned out to be incorrect as there was no next release.
Also under the old system I have a version of the software which will continue to open and edit my projects without requiring that I continue to feed Adobe money for the privilege of doing so...
I would never feel comfortable with building any kind of important projects inside of After Effects CC because if I ever switch to another compositing App in the future I won't be able to open or edit my old projects without paying Adobe every time I want to do so. This is just unacceptable to me.
GIMP does a decent job of working with PSD files...
until adobe decides to flex their legal might and claim IP infringements, or simply create a new file type, say perhaps .cc which has "more features and improves performance 10 fold!" yadda yadda yadda.... don't think they won't they created adobe rgb and have tried to get people on that too one way or the other, didn't they?
get a clue what we are talking about.
are you unable to understand even the simplest things?
nobody said you can´t store the files on your local HDD.. this is about FILE FORMATS and that you need adobe apps to open them!!!
Why so rude dude? Is that really necessary? Did you need insults and three exclamation points to make your argument. Geez!
The title of that paragraph implies something different. A lot of people are thinking you must save files to the cloud. That's not true. The paragraph itself says that you won't be able to open PSDs. As many others have stated, you can open PSD with other apps.
By the way, as noted in other places, you can get PS for $19.99/mo. Do the math - if you purchase a license to Photoshop, it's 2 years of PS costs. Do you not upgrade at least every 2 years?
We realize that this is not ideal for everyone, but it allows Adobe to push out new features much faster and easier now. Our users will benefit from this greatly.
Mr. Wilson, 2 issues here
1. your math is off
If I spend $20/month for 2 years I am spending $480. PS upgrade was a LOT less than that. Also, even with "discount" I am spending $360. So even if I did upgrade every 2 years upgrade was cheaper!
2. It was a matter of choice and investment options
I can upgrade WHEN I have the money, which means if I need to go 3 years or skip a version, I can. I can also keep my version that I paid for an use it forever. If I start with CC and get Photoshop and when I am done, I can not keep it. Even though I would shell out good bit of money for it(e.g. after 3 years $720)
Oh and as far as other apps, sorry, but why should I have to learn a brand new app to use my PSD files? And what about the plugins (e.g. Alien Skin, etc) that I invest into - they do not work with other "apps"
Atomic... I agree with your math.
I am eligible for student/educator discounts that allowed me to purchase PS for less than $200. Even with the CC educator plan ($20/mo) I am forced to pay more than before just over a one year time frame.
Faculty may be able to get this funded through programs at their local school, but students cannot afford $240/year for a suite of applications. Photography students use PS only and there are no affordable option for them. I think Adobe completely forgot about this market segment. It is today's students who are tomorrow's creatives. Thank you to Adobe for your support to our education system!
if you wont pay so just don't use this softwere that's it!! designer graphics, photographer, illustator etc already paid from their client over than $500/artwork, stop nagging and don't use this softwere if you complaint!!! Adobe is GOD!! LMAO
Here's the math -- http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57583370-92/how-greedy-is-adobes-creati... -- scroll on down to find the Photoshop/single-product math.
Don't get mad at me dude - I'm not trying to convince you that this is for you. I'm simply trying to share the facts of the situation.
Greg
Yes, that is math - but is assumes that I am starting with CS6. I, as many others, started many versions ago. So I invested $350 (promo price) on CS1, $129 on CS3 upgrade, $129 for CS5 upgrade, and $129 for CS6 (because they threatened to not allow "every other version" option any more).
This take me back over 6 years. $737. If I were to do that in subscrption I would pay $120 for first year and $240 for the other years = $1320. Even If I would have paid full $700 for CS1 I would be ahead ... AND I would be able to stop and own the software that at least would be current for a couple years. With the cloud once I stop, I either have to go back to an old "perpetual license" version or be screwed. Also, With package price, if business is slow I can push back the upgrade and wait and still have usable software, with cloud, no such thing.
And then there is the "math" for people who don't think of original investment costs, they are not getting those back and simply look at upgrade vs cloud costs. $129 for upgrade every year or two vs $120 for first year and $240 for every year after. That is fair math, not "starting over" math!
I buy a new car. Let's say $30K. I drive carefully, maintain it well, do not drive an extreme number of miles. I drive it for 10 years and then decide to buy me a new one. All personal choice, costing me around $3,000 a year.
Now, alas I can't buy a new car anymore: I am FORCED to rent it. Cost: $10,000 a year. But, I am assured, as soon as a new model is available (once every two years) I can drive it for FREE!
ANY math will fail to justify this: The salesman says that If I would upgrade to the new model every two years in the old situation, that would be much more expensive than the new rental fee. Which might be proper math. But not for me: I might want to decide in year eleven to drive another year in my old car, simply because I do not have enough cash yet, or because I dislike the new model.
With rental the repo guys would immediately be at my doorstep to take away my brand new car, leaving me empty handed.
Adobe, be honest. This is ALL about getting MUCH more money in your pockets by practically forcing EVERYBODY to spend money on upgrades. No more free choice.
And bad news for everybody paid by Adobe: they will fire a large part of their employees and lean back because there is nothing left to do but checking the increasing numbers on their bank accounts.
It will be a boomerang for Adobe I can assure you. I'll keep driving my latest CS6 model for the next 10 or twelve years (like MOST people will do given this situation!) and when Adobe is then begging for my money I'll decide for another brand that had a comfortable 10 years time to develop a sane alternative.
I don't need cloud. I don't need CC. Adobe, wake up, you make great products but soon you will be forgotten! Everything has a price. Happen to remember QuarkExpress???
Just to mention: today I tried to upgrade CS5 to CS6 and is 199$ (not 129$ as I thought as well)
Adobe shill
Why such a con job Dude!
Yeah when a paid shill is playing the be reasonable game and pumping low ball figures and deliberately ignoring the concerns of those complaining because its his job to push Adobes point of view.
Couple of points you seem to be missing.
1. just because Adobe feels the cloud feature is a value in no way means anyone else has to feel that way or looking at their own bottom-line understand that this does not fit their finances. Some people cant afford a 10 or 20 dollars a month pr simply dont want to because they have to wait for that one job or that financial windfall to put into investing in new equipment and software.
2 yeah thanks for nothing on .psd and .pdf yeah there are some programs that can utilize them however to fully utilize the format your forced to us the product from the originator of the format. Things like smart objets and filters specific to adobes offerings dont transfer over to other software.
3 oh hey I cant afford Adobes cloud offering at this moment and all my software goes dead, this forces me to purchase alternate software to fill in the gap or pretty much stop dead in my tracks in regards to working on my images. Maybe adobe should put a percentage of your subscription in an escrow account so you can purchase replacement software.
Thank you Adobe for trying to fix everyones finances by trying to force their customers into a rigid financial subscription box that only fits a narrow range of customers.
4. .DNG Hey Adobe thanks for the great format that sadly you dont really even use. What do I mean by that? well unlike .PSD which is the Ubiquitous photoshop format and .psd (Editable) which is second .DNG is an optional sorta run in the Adobe world. Cannon and Nikon and the other camera makers al have their version of raw and well lightroom works just fine with them and yeah you have the option to go .DNG on import or later to convert but the time to do so is onerous in a quick workflow and well lightroom handles the other raws so well not much need to. To give a more pointed example of how lacking it is in Adobes view and how .PSD is pushed when you edit a file in photoshop form lightroom it makes a new .PSD no option to use .DNG here.
I'm simply sharing facts. I did not "pump low ball figures".
I think you totally misunderstand the purpose of the DNG format (it's an open format, not adobe proprietary).
Chill out man! - I'm simply trying to share the facts. I'm not trying to convince you that this is the right thing for you. Everyone is in a different situation. A massive number of folks are loving creative cloud. I talked to thousands at Adobe MAX this week. But I dont' expect you to love it and I respect your opinions, but let's leave the emotion and noise out of the conversation, ok? I'm trying to be your advocate.
BTW - interesting article today that explains some of the math in a clear way -- http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57583370-92/how-greedy-is-adobes-creati...
No trust me Greg I do understand .DNG I think its awesome is an actual give back by adobe to the community its a great Archival format and its flexible it also has no proprietary elements and guess what when you go from light room to phtoshop BANG! your in PSD proprietary land. Oh and guess what again Adobe makes no provision in using external programs to use DNG you get jpg psd and tiff.
Of the rhree choices non are stay in the raw format you image is in or move to another open raw format called DNG its proprietory format or 2 formats that are pretty useless if your trying to maintain a mostly raw workflow
your "facts" are bullsh*t or you are simply lying. what is it?
check the price in europe for example...
but hey mr. adobe.. i think we don´t want to hear your obscuring lies here anymore!!
what he means is: you still need the software to open the file. no subscription, no software.
Correct - last time I check.
Hey greg wheres that advice you gave about all the alternate programs that can open and fully use .PSD like photoshop. Can we have a list of these programs that "one to one" utilize all the features of .psd
What I think the article is saying on #4 and they don't say it very well is that you can't save a PSD file and then open it if you don't have the program to open it with.
Pretty sure GIMP and even PIXLR will open PSD files.
You can SAVE files locally, BUT if you stop using Adobe's cloud,
maybe you want to switch to a competitive software,
you can NOT OPEN or USE those Adobe files you own and created.
Most competitive software will indeed open the files.
.PSD isn't the problem. It's all the others like After Effects projects and Premiere pro... There are plenty of important file types you won't be able to open without paying Adobe to do so.
One note on this article, you can subscribe to a single app. It's still a subscription, but you can subscribe to one app.
http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/buying-guide.html
See #2!
Wasn't in the original post. And you can subscribe to more apps than Photoshop and if you have Photoshop already, it's $10 if you want the new version. Poorly written article at best. Check out the post by Scott Kelby for a good review of what's going on. http://scottkelby.com/2013/my-take-on-adobes-announcements-yesterday-at-...
I read Scott's candy coated Bullshit and you obviously failed your basic math class.
FYI the $10 is for the first year only. Then it jumps to $20.
Can you add that up?
Let me help you. If Johnny buys an upgrade at $199 and uses it until the new version comes out he is paying how much? Answer $11.05 based on the normal 18 month schedule.
What if Johnny decides to wait until the next update? Well, Jonny's cost is only $5.52 a month and can still open his PSD files.
Now lets look at the CC model. If Johnny pays $10 for 12 months and then $20 for 6 months how much has Johnny spent? Answer $240. That is a lose of $41.
Now, how much based on the 18 month schedule will Johnny spend next time? Answer $340. That is a $161 difference. What If Johnny wants to wait before spending the money to upgrade? Well Johnny is SOL, too bad Johnny you need to keep your subscription current to use Photoshop. :(
How is that for a good review!
Snarky, but logical.
Since we'll roll on down the road of fuzzy math, lets talk about Johnny who hasn't started his business yet. He'd like Photoshop for his business. What's that cost him now? $699 or roughly 3 years at the subscription price. So based on your 18 months with the upgrade you're looking at $699 up front, plus your $199 twice in those 36 months. Totaling $1097. Subscription for the same 3 years? $718.20. For a SAVINGS of $378.80. If you want to do some math, that's fine, but do the whole problem. Leaving out the initial purchase of a photographer already owning photoshop skews the problem just a bit.
Now lets say Johnny decides this isn't for him, he's out what at most? 12 months at $19.99. Or a savings of 459.12 over buying photoshop outright like he'd have to do now.
Lets take the next piece of the pie. Lets say that Johnny gets crazy busy and hires an apprentice or two for the summer. And they get their own machines. He can add Photoshop at $29.99 a month, no contract. He can drop that software onto their machine for the length of their apprentice and not be out the $699 he'd need for a license.
See where this is going? It makes a lot of sense a lot of the time.
That wasn't fuzzy math, that was MATH math.
I agree it is good for those that want to start out, but there are a lot of people who have been Adobe customers for years. What about them?
Also, what happens when times are bad and hobbyists, enthusiasts, and semi pros are looking to cut monthly bills. Suddenly Adobe programs don't look so important and Photoshop goes the way of the cable bill.
I am sure Adobe's business model is sound, but it still sucks for those that will have to change the way they do business with the company.
a) most kids now a days have some photoshop exp in school, so johnny knows if photoshop is or isn't for him before hand.
b)Also most people don't buy photoshop outright they 'upgrade' from other deals, say elements, or a wacom offer, etc. so still you math isn't right sir.
But here is the kicker, if johnny buys photoshop he still has photoshop in the old model in the new model he owns nothing and has just flush money down the drain. period.
c)the only thing this new model kills is the secondary market, which adobe doesn't like anyways, and if anything will send people to pirate the new apps in the cc line, which there will always be...
Freaking awesome write-up as always Jaron. Couldn't agree more.
Well said!
The people who are really going to hate Creative Cloud are all the people who stole the software, pirated it, copied from a friend, installed one license on a dozen computers, used a license they got from work at home, etc.
The deal is that it's a money saving situation compared to actually owning the software. Paying $1,800 for a box of software is the same as $50 a month for three years. When you "rent" Creative Cloud, it's constantly updated. What's the point of owning three year old software that is out of date - after three years, you'll have gotten your money's worth and upgraded anyways.
So just own up to the fact that :
1) the real reason to be pissed is you can't steal the software anymore
and
2) what alternatives are there really for doing actual serious graphic and motion design? What else are you going to use - Corel Paint?
$50 a month is the price of doing business, it'd cost that anyway if you actually bought a license, and it's tax deductible. So what's the problem?
lol.. warez user will not be affected at all.
the cloud soft will be crack.
there is no reason at all why it should not be.
so get a clue and look at microsofts KMS server and other server side activation .
same principle.... -> CRACKED.
don´t talk about stuff you don´t understand.. ok!
You're lying, Alex. You're LYING, lying, lying, lying. Lying.
I am NOT a pirate. I started purchasing Adobe products 15 years ago while I was still a student, in fact. I know what I have spent on them since.
Creative Cloud will cost me more.
Own up to the fact that you are lying.
Corel Paintshop Pro actually. When it's on sale it's $50, and it can do 98% of what Photoshop can do.
and up to no wthere is photoshop elements fotr $100 - although that may get pulled as well
Great job on libeling so many people. Now unless you can prove your comments are true about everyone that you slandered, prepare to pay a boat load in fines.
"after three years, you'll have gotten your money's worth and upgraded anyways."
Who's to say that I can't buy the software and use it for more than three years? Heck, at work we still have Photoshop CS3 on one of the machines just because we only do basic image processing. With the new system, you're basically forced to keep spending money even if you don't want to upgrade.
Since Alex libeled me and many others, it ok to call him a jackass here?
Jackass!
The difference, assuming after three years you've paid out the same amount of money to rent vs purchase, is that you can quit paying and still use the software.
FWIW, I have purchased every CS Suite since CS2. I purchased them substantially below list price so not only would this new scheme leave me with nothing after three years but, in my case, I would pay more for the privilege. (I'm speaking hypothetically because I will never rent software.)
That said, I'm sure there's some truth to the assertion that it will make Adobe products harder/more inconvenient to pirate. Just don't pretend that Adobe isn't screwing legitimate paying customers as well.
spoken like a true paid Adobe shill...
I stipulate that the reason so many people are pirating Photoshop is that $700 for a software program is still ridiculously expensive